[soc.religion.christian] In communiion with Rome?

mangoe@mimsy.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) (09/18/90)

A. F. Norcio writes:

>The question was asked which Churches are in full communion with Rome.  While
>the intent of the question is obvious, its phrasing assumes a reality or
>situation that doesn't actually exist.

The notion of "being in communion with" does exist.  To boil most of what
you say down into a few sentences, the Roman church refuses to engage in any
relationship with a church body other than to rule over it.  I realize that
this is slightly inaccurate in principle, in that, strictly speaking, the
Roman church doesn't have quite this degree of authority.  Yet in practice,
the Pope has been first of all the head of the RC church, for quite a long
time.

The reality of catholicity is, of course, disputed.  Among anglicans, the
notion of a communion does obtain; anglican churches recognize each other's
orders and rites.  But the churches involved limit their jurisdiction
(roughly) to single countries, and make no claims to solely represent
christian authority even then.  Within the USA, there is some level of
common communion between the anglicans and the lutherans.

>There are six Rites recognized by the Catholic Church.  A Rite is a
>distinctive way or manner of performing the rituals in the Church.  Each of
>the six Rites is quite distinctive and are very ancient.  These six Rites
>evolved over a period of several centuries and were finalized in the 4th
>century.

This last claim is quite wide of the mark.  The Roman Rite (there were in
fact other western rites) evolved extensively up to the reformation, not
being finally fixed until the Council of Trent.

>(For the sake of accuracy, I must point out that these are the only rites
>that are recognized by the Catholic Church; in recent years the Episcopal
>Church has started referring to itself as the Anglican Catholic Church or
>the Anglican Rite of the Catholic Church.

The first claim is simply and flatly wrong.  There is (or was) a separate
Anglican Catholic church which split off in the '70s; it is not a part of
the Episcopal Church or the anglican communion.  As far as the other claim
is concerned, I am unaware of any official claims in this direction.  THe
anglican communion, however, rejects the papal claims to *unique*
catholicity, so that one might, if one felt sufficiently provocative, make
such a claim.

And while there is no official recognition of the anglicans by Rome, the
reverse is not true.  RCs who join themselves to anglican churches, for
example, are not re-confirmed.  If I may exaggerate the anglican view on
this, we tend to recognize the RC (and uniate, and eastern while we're at
it) bishops and preists as "real" bishops and preists.  We simply can't live
with Rome's autocracy and the (in our opinion, of course) wrongheaded
opinions she forces on everyone.
-- 
C. Wingate         + "Our God to whom we turn when weary with illusion,
                   +  Whose stars serenely burn above this world's confusion,
mangoe@cs.umd.edu  +  Thine is the mighty plan, the steadfast order sure
mimsy!mangoe       +  In which the world began, endures, and shall endure."

carroll@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Jeff Carroll) (09/20/90)

In article <Sep.13.04.14.30.1990.24858@athos.rutgers.edu> norcio@afn.ifsm.umbc.edu (A. F. Norcio) writes:

>(For the sake of accuracy, I must point out that these are the only
>rites that are recognized by the Catholic Church;  in recent years
>the Episcopal Church has started referring to itself as the Anglican
>Catholic Church or the Anglican Rite of the Catholic Church.  This
>terminology is unique the Episcopal Church. The Catholic Church does
>not recognize the Episcopal Church as a rite in the Catholic Church
>and the Catholic Church does not recognize the validity of Episcopal
>clergy as priests and does not consider Episcopal bishops as bishops
>and does not consider their sacaraments as valid.)

	No. The Anglican Catholic Church is a group in schism from the
Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America (also known
as The Episcopal Church.) Another such group is known as the Anglican
Orthodox Church. Yet another group is known (I believe) as the Anglican
Episcopal Church. All are in some sense in communion with the Episcopal
Church, since the EC has open communion; but none is in communion with
Canterbury, which recognizes the Episcopal Church as the only province
of the Anglican Communion in the United States.

	Jeff Carroll
	carroll@atc.boeing.com