[soc.religion.christian] My God is bigger and badder than your god!!!!!

jrossi@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Joe "Bart" Rossi) (09/17/90)

In article <Sep.13.02.45.48.1990.24149@athos.rutgers.edu> mgobbi@cs.ubc.ca 
(Mike Gobbi) writes:
>While the "enlightened" response is clearly close-minded, I feel that
>the second response fails to recognize your belief in the supremacy of
>your own God (While it is impolitic to insist that you are correct, it

for some reason, I have a real hard time with what I call "Hometown
Football Team mentality" that suggests the orientation in my subject
line.  Is there really only "One" God, or are there many.  Is Satan
a God?  Is Satan real?  *Who* is answering the prayers of all those
who pray to different Gods under the mistaken assumption they are
praying to *The God.*

A big block to love and understanding is an attitude that divides 
people, much in the same way gang loyalty causes division amongst
blacks in the inner-city, or in a much more benign way, the manner
in which rival schools fight and bicker over football teams (i.e.
usc vs. ucla).  Everyone, including myself, will grow learning to 
love and defend what they take on as their own.  Getting beyond
this orientation and coming into the Prescence of God, that makes
all this One, is to me, the primary task that God calls us to.

In the end, I happen to believe you can subscribe to two kinds of
views of history:  1) poses history as an elaborate practical joke,
wherein the victim in the end is suprised in same manner as person
who is fooled into walking into a suprise birthday party.  In other
words, its a fun joke, and in the end, the person feels loved. 2)
poses history as an elaborate practical joke wherein the victim is
tricked in a mean and nasty way, and is humiliated, and made to feel
quite bad.

My universalism leads me to believe in the end everyone will get the joke,
but at the same time,  I sometimes feel that the Hell Jesus talked about
was for the "Religious Hypocrites" who felt that through their actions,
they would not end up the victims of a scenario that poses history as a
mean practical joke.  I happen to think that subscribing to this second
version denies a faith in God's Love, and good humour.

In my own way, I *LOVE* everyone, and while as an individual I feel quite
helpless at times, I pray and trust that God will bring everyone I love
to him.  So a certain point I stop worrying about Christians who think
they are on the only road to heaven, as well as athiests who think I'm
quite silly.  I believe in scenario number 1.  Life is a good natured
joke, and God is waiting in heaven, to *surpise* us.  For me to think
otherwise would be to think less of God, and I hold God in the highest
light.  

Awhile back there was a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon that had Calvin
overwhelmed by his ability to see both sides of an issue.  In my own
way I can understand the "hell" for the trillions.  God certainly
isn't obligated to do anything, but at the same time, God can
prevent the endless suffering of tormented souls, and my faith,
be it even the size of a mustard seed, trusts in God's intention to
bring EVERYONE  to universal peace.  I believe in God's unconditional
love, and while as humans we may not be able to always love as
unconditionally as God, to say that God does not love us unconditionally
is not very flattering.

Just my .02 cents.  Emerson one wrote [as seen in a sig.file on rec.arts.
poems] that he [paraprhased] says what he thinks and feels today, with
the full realization that tommorrow he may think opposite or completely
differently.

I don't believe in a "Football team" God with his own fans, and adherents
against the rest of creation, and minnions of evil spirits.  I believe
in a God of Love that is universally present, and works in many, many
mysterious ways.  We cannot know that Jesus Christ is the only way, but
trust that this is the way for us.  We must respect the differences in
others, and love them the same, without judging their way or their
outer beliefs.  For all we know, their way just may be one of God's
mysterious ways.  We cannot pretend to know whats best for them.  All
we can do is love them, pray for them, and if they ask us, pray with
them.  If we do this, we create unity, to God's glory.  If we balk
at it, maybe we think we can see the whole picture, when in reality
we're just afraid.





-- 
"The affirmation of one's own life-the acceptance of one's destiny as
it manifests itself in each moment-is the supreme act of faith."

dconnor@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Daren Connor) (09/20/90)

It seems to me that the best response is a quote from Jesus himself:

	"I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father
	 except by me."

Based on my interpretation of this passage, I can't really agree with your basic
concept that different groups have different "ways".

- Daren Connor

jag@cello.mc.duke.edu (John Graves) (09/25/90)

In article <Sep.20.03.48.57.1990.19542@athos.rutgers.edu> dconnor@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Daren Connor) writes:
>It seems to me that the best response is a quote from Jesus himself:
>
>	"I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father
>	 except by me."
>
>Based on my interpretation of this passage, I can't really agree with your basic
>concept that different groups have different "ways".
>
>- Daren Connor

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life.  

No one comes to the father except by the Word.

The Word was the light that shines in the darkness.

What was the Word.

That ye should honor God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Any religion that teaches the Word but had another prophet would
be coming to the Father through Jesus, the Word, manifested in human
form to the Hebrews but all proclaimed by Moses, Buddha, Confuscius,
Sequoia, and any other who proclaimed that love is all.

A humble love that does justice and shows mercy.


     John Allan Graves                 *Unitarian Universalism*
     jag@cello.cellbio.duke.edu        A church where you don't have to
     Duke Divinity School       	check your mind at the door!
     disavows anything I say!