[soc.religion.christian] a small question

jmoon@lehi3b15.csee.lehigh.edu (Jonggu Moon [890911]) (10/01/90)

If we are supposed to love our neighbor,
how come we're born with the killer instinct ?

^>*<^jon

mangoe@mimsy.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) (10/03/90)

Jonggu Moon writes:
>If we are supposed to love our neighbor, how come we're born with the killer
>instinct ?

I could haggle over the fine print (I don't believe in the "killer
instinct"), but instead I'll stick to pointing out the obvious:

If we didn't feel impelled to sin (e.g., murder), we wouldn't need to be
told not to.
-- 
C. Wingate         + "Our God to whom we turn when weary with illusion,
                   +  Whose stars serenely burn above this world's confusion,
mangoe@cs.umd.edu  +  Thine is the mighty plan, the steadfast order sure
mimsy!mangoe       +  In which the world began, endures, and shall endure."

hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) (10/03/90)

In article <Sep.30.21.15.29.1990.16674@athos.rutgers.edu> jmoon@lehi3b15.csee.lehigh.edu (Jonggu Moon [890911]) writes:
>If we are supposed to love our neighbor,
>how come we're born with the killer instinct ?

Well, I don't agree that we are born with a "killer instinct."  The
natural man may not be very nice to his fellows but killing another
human is something most of us do with great reluctance if at all,
just talk to anybody who has been in the army.  Of course this is
still a good question, "How come we're born with the instinct to
take advantage of others (steal, hurt, etc.)?

Actually I think this is rather at the heart of Christianity.  The
whole point is that through Christ we can become something quite
different from what we are at birth, putting on the new man and
learning charity.

"Be not deceived:  neither fornicators nor idolaters nor...shall
inherit the kingdom of God.  And such *were* some of you but ye are
washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of
the Lord Jesus by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6:9-11, emphasis
mine)

lionti@ecs.umass.edu (10/03/90)

 jmoon@lehi3b15.csee.lehigh.edu (Jonggu Moon [890911]) writes:
> If we are supposed to love our neighbor,
> how come we're born with the killer instinct ?

In Saturday Night Live "Church Lady" voice:

"Could it be...SATAN?"   

(I'd like to put a smiley here, but unfortunately, it's just not funny)  
For Biblical references, see Gen., etc. etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric C. McClure
lionti@umaecs.bitnet
Standard Disclaimer

vm0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vincent Paul Mulhern) (10/03/90)

Jon,
   The Bible says that you have to be born again.  (It doesn't say you
have to become a chandalier-swinging nut with no brain, but it does say
you have to be born again).  
   One of the effects of this is that the source of your motives
changes.  I'm not driven by the old sin/death nature of my old
self...now I'm motivated by the love/life nature of my re-created
spirit.  Romans makes a lot of distinctions between a born again and a
not-born again person.

-Vince

mgobbi@cs.ubc.ca (Mike Gobbi) (10/04/90)

jon writes:
>If we are supposed to love our neighbor,
>how come we're born with the killer instinct?

My first question when I saw this was "What is the killer instinct?"
Taking a straigtforward interpretation, this would imply that when
a human meets another human he instinctively desires to kill them.  I
cannot speak for society in general, I can fairly certainly state that
this is not MY reaction.

Taking the socially accepted (?) view of killer instinct as being the
competitive drive, I see no conflict with this feeling and love.  My
fiercest contests (over schoolwork, athletics, or whatever) are with 
my best friends.  If I DON'T love someone, I have no desire to compete
with them at all.  If you cannot respect (which I consider an integral
part of love) a person, why should you care whether they are "better"
than you at something?

In fact, I don't think any scientist or sociologist has ever seriously
suggested that humans have any such "killer instinct".  The phrase is
a description of our society and has no technical meaning.  And I think
there are few who would pretend that our society is an accurate repres-
entation of God's will.

********

Examining the question from a syntactical view, a key point in the
question is the phrase "supposed to".  Just because something is God's
will does not mean that it is guaranteed, or even easy.  That's what
free will is all about.

--
     __
    /..\      In quest of knowledge....
 --mm--mm--         Mike Gobbi

jrossi@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Joe Rossi) (10/07/90)

In article <Oct.3.03.35.45.1990.13465@athos.rutgers.edu> 
lionti@ecs.umass.edu writes:
> jmoon@lehi3b15.csee.lehigh.edu (Jonggu Moon [890911]) writes:
>> If we are supposed to love our neighbor,
>> how come we're born with the killer instinct ?
>
>In Saturday Night Live "Church Lady" voice:
>
>"Could it be...SATAN?"   

if you want to equate SATAN with the LifeForce, yes, than maybe.  I've
been dwelling on this for some time.  We are both physical beings
and spiritual beings.  It is our spiritual being that can love our
neighboor, but it is our physical being, as governed by Natural
Laws, that dictates what do as an animal.  And in this I find
a room for compassion.  Our actions are governed by our nervous
systems and its programming.  One of those programs is the 
survival imperative.  When put in a life threatening situation,
we are thrown into a fight or flight situation.  Adrenalin is
released into the brain.  Its the way the LifeForce in us demands
that we do what we need to survive and its the same thing that
causes my cats to hiss at other cats, or to fight, or even kill.
On one level as animals we are slaves to these laws, as we compete
with other life forms including our own in competition for 
territory, "turf," food, resources etc. in a limited and hostile
natural world.  But as spiritual beings, we learn that we must
rise above our natural instincts.  It has to do with our
awareness of the eternalness of life and God.  Rising above
the animal and embracing the divine is not an easy thing to 
do which is why I have compassion for those still trapped
by the animal.  Its also why I'm a pacifist.



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