chris@umcp-cs.UUCP (Chris Torek) (09/25/84)
* From: falcone@erlang.DEC (Joe Falcone, HLO2-3/N03, dtn 225-6059)
. . . the AFL-CIO has passed resolutions indicating their
position on other "work-at-home" situations. In particular,
they passed a resolution favoring the passage of a law
regulating computer work at home. . . . Of course, it is
unclear what the extent of such a law would be, but it would
definitely effect all those solitary hackers putting out nifty
utilities for PC's as a profitable hobby. In this case, hacker
does = criminal; someone could be prosecuted for programming at
home just like the knitters in New England.
(-:)
FLAME!!! What!? They're all conspiring to keep us stuck in rush hour!
Work at home? They'll haul me off to jail! (Please officer I was just
playing Rogue! NOOOOOooooooaaaaaauuugh....)
--
(This mind accidently left blank.)
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci (301) 454-7690
UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!chris
CSNet: chris@umcp-cs ARPA: chris@marylandwall@ucbvax.ARPA (Steve Wall) (09/26/84)
[this might end up in net.politics...] [you toucha my modem, I breaka your face...] 60 Minutes did a story on "cottage industries" (i.e. working at home) last Sunday (Sept. 23rd). The story was on a group of people back East somewhere who make women's wool clothing at home and how the AFL-CIO was trying to get them to close down their home production. There is some basis for the union's concern in the garmet industry, since there are quite a few small businesses that resemble "sweat shops" and employ mostly women at low wages. The people back East worked at home under very pleasant conditions and earned ~$8.00/hr, but the union was trying to keep this from spreading turning into the low-paying "sweat shops". I think the union might have a point here, although it's clearly open for debate. ANYWAY, The interesting thing was that one of the home-producers said that the union was using them as a guinea pig for the much bigger home computer industry that is emerging. With union membership on the decline, there is no doubt that the will try to get a foothold on the home computer industry. I have a feeling tha it will get pretty nasty as this issue is settled. Ah yes, "The times, they are a changin'" Steve Wall ..!ucbvax!wall
long@ittvax.UUCP (H. Morrow Long) (09/26/84)
> CC: > > > > For those of you following the "work-at-home" legal debate which > has surrounded some New England knitters, there is an interesting twist > to that story which hits close to home. As part of the relentless > effort by the International Ladies Garment Workers Union to maintain > that law, the AFL-CIO has passed resolutions indicating their position on > other "work-at-home" situations. In particular, they passed a resolution > favoring the passage of a law regulating computer work at home similar to > the law used against the New England knitters. Of course, it is unclear > what the extent of such a law would be, but it would definitely effect all > those solitary hackers putting out nifty utilities for PC's as a profitable > hobby. In this case, hacker does = criminal; someone could be prosecuted > for programming at home just like the knitters in New England. > > > Joe Falcone > Eastern Research Laboratory decwrl! > Digital Equipment Corporation decvax!deccra!jrf > Hudson, Massachusetts tardis! I saw the piece CBS "60 minutes" did on this issue and it appeared that the AFL-CIO was also trying to stamp out the advance of "telecommuting". Is this true? If so, I think we should send mail to our congresspersons. H. Morrow Long decvax!ittvax!long
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (09/26/84)
This discussion started out "for those of you following the debate about knitters working at home." I'm sorry, but some of us are unaware of this debate and would like to know more. Can someone please summarize what has happened to these unfortunate people trying to make a few bucks? What law has been passed? Why was it passed? What court case occurred? How does the law stand up against the constitution? What is the scope of the law (e.g. USA, Mass, some city?)
djw@imsvax.UUCP (Donald Whytock) (09/27/84)
...Perhaps I am naive, but this talk about the AFL-CIO hitting up on home computer workers surprises me. In point of fact, I didn't know that there had been any effort to unionize programmers. Are there any specific instances of this? (As far as that goes, are there any examples of good programming "sweat shops"? I can just see some poor unknown genius being forced to unfair labor conditions at a mere $35K...) Donald Whytock ...allegra!umcp-cs!eneevax!imsvax!djw
wall@ucbvax.ARPA (Steve Wall) (09/28/84)
I'm sorry if the article I submitted was vague, but I was just passing along what the home workers on 60 Minutes mentioned last Sunday (i.e. that the unions will try to fight against home computer work). After thinking this over, it really doesn't make sense that the unions would be after programmers, since programmers are (for the most part) well paid and work under good conditions. I think that the union might be against the more "data entry" oriented types of jobs that tend to be lower paying and more open to unionization. For instance, say Company A pays Person B $5.00/hr to enter data from home, whereas a person working at the office would be paid $7.00/hr. Clearly, Company A would be in- terested in cutting costs by hiring the person at home. I think that the unions are concerned because the people who work at home will be harder to organize than the people who work at the office (since workers at the office are grouped together on a daily basis, there would be a better chance of unionization, whereas the people at home are scattered throughout an area and are harder to organize). My impression is that there is not a lot of this type of "home" working going on at this time, but it could become more common in the future. Does this seem to make sense, or am I completely off base? Comments? Steve Wall ..!ucbvax!wall
sef@drutx.UUCP (FarleighSE) (09/28/84)
A comment was made that seeing how programmers are well paid the Unions would not try to organize them. (This is my understanding of the comment). WRONGO, bit breath! The local Sicilian Boy Scout chapters have, for atleast the past seven years, been trying to "organize" professionals, ie. engineers, programmers, etc.. They, the Unions, have met with limited success in this endeavor. The reason they are trying to organize pro's is because of the falling numbers of blue collar workers. PERSONAL OPINION!!!!!!!!!! I feel the reason the Unions have met with limited success in this area is that professionals usually have a higher educational background than the blue collar worker (this does not necessarily mean that pro's can spell, see above article :-)). The above comments and opinions, etc., are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. Scott E. Farliegh AT&TIS Denver
dxp@pyuxhh.UUCP (D Peak) (10/01/84)
Re : Unions and telecommuting.
Someone recently stated that they hadn't seen much union
activity in regards to recruiting computer professionals.
Well it's on the way. The US for several reasons lags
behind Europe as far as union membership is concerned.
When I was last employed(am now self employed) 9 years
ago by a US corporation in England the unions already
had a good solid foot in the door through organization
of computor operators,data prep staff and some programmers.
One thing the unions fought for and won was overtime pay.
The employers view was that a programmer was a member of
management and thus was recompensed in other ways than
overtime pay. The unions (and a lot of programmers) stated
that they were technicians and thus deserved overtime pay.
One thing that unions appear to have gained in Britain is
5 weeks paid vacation (check UK computer publications).
When I left Britain starting vacation entitlement was
3 weeks and 3 days. I don't know how strong the unions are
in DP industry nowadays (maybe a more recent ex-pat could
post more info).
--
Dave Peak (pyuxhh!dxp)
"Thank God I'm an atheist !!!"
- Dave Allenjj@rabbit.UUCP (10/01/84)
It seems to me that the AFL-CIO's real intent is to DAMAGE the jobs of all those elitist white collar pigs that take jobs away from the blue collar worker by making the best, most comfortable, and most productive way to work illegal. I don't doubt that SOMEONE will start a computer sweatshop, for every good there is an evil, after all, I just think that the results of a computer sweatshop would never pay off in the long run. -- BE KIND TO SOFT FURRY CREATURES, THE LIFE YOU SAVE MAY BE YOUR OWN! "I'm goin', I'm goin', where the water tastes like wine..." (allegra,ihnp4,ulysses)!rabbit!jj
bprice@bmcg.UUCP (10/01/84)
In article <ucbvax.2241> wall@ucbvax.UUCP writes: > > it really doesn't make sense that the unions >would be after programmers, since programmers are (for the most part) >well paid and work under good conditions. Shows how well you understand unions. They want to get programmers, with their good pay, because the better the victim is paid, the more union dues he can pay. The better the working conditions, the less work the union crooks have to do themselves. > I think that the >unions are concerned because the people who work at home will be harder >to organize than the people who work at the office (since workers at >the office are grouped together on a daily basis, there would be a better >chance of unionization, whereas the people at home are scattered throughout >an area and are harder to organize). This paragraph is getting a lot closer to the problem that the union crooks have with a work-at-home idea. The very nature of a union is power: the union leader has it, because the demos in congress have given it to him. He's not about to agree with anything that will reduce that power, or reduce the uses that he can put the power to, or reduce the income he can get from having that power. It's a lot easier to police a picket line when you have a place to picket. How do you verify that your union members are obeying your strike orders if they don't have to get by the goons to get to work? If each person can set his own working conditions, in his own home, how can the union use working conditions as a contract (power) item? Naturally, I'm not claiming my statements to be those of anybody else. I could get into deep sneakers if the unions that contract with parts of my employer were to believe that my statements were company policy. -- --Bill Price uucp: {decvax!ucbvax philabs}!sdcsvax!bmcg!bprice arpa:? sdcsvax!bmcg!bprice@nosc