geoff@uunet.uu.net (Geoff Allen) (09/27/90)
Goodness, we're straying from the original subject! I guess that's what makes the net so much fun! :^) mike@turing.cs.unm.edu (Michael I. Bushnell) writes: >On an exegetic basis, there is considerable debate about the meaning >of the tetragrammaton. It is traditionally translated into most >languages elliptically rather than as a proper name. Most English >bibles use the word "LORD" written in small caps, following a >tradition started (I think) by the KJV. I'm not a Hebrew scholar, and I don't play one on TV (or the net), but it is my understanding that the tradition of translating the tetragrammaton as 'Lord' comes from the Masoretic text. The name of God is written as the consonants YHWH, and the vowel pointings (diacritical marks added above or below letters to indicate vowels -- there are only consonants in the Hebrew alphabet) for the original word are not known. The Masoretic text uses the vowel pointings for 'Adonai,' which is 'Lord.' When reading the Masoretic text, one would say 'Adonai' even though 'YHWH' is printed, so as not to attempt to pronounce the holy name of God. The tradition of translating YHWH into English as 'LORD' in all caps is to distinguish between 'YHWH' and 'Adonai.' I have no idea if it started with the KJV or earlier versions of the English Bible. If there are any Hebrew scholars out there who see anything I've said which needs to be corrected, feel free. -- Geoff Allen \ Since we live by the Spirit, uunet!pmafire!geoff \ let us keep in step with the Spirit. bigtex!pmafire!geoff \ -- Gal. 5:25 (NIV)
boris@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU (Boris Chen) (10/21/90)
In article <Sep.27.03.24.30.1990.14541@athos.rutgers.edu> pmafire!geoff@uunet.uu.net (Geoff Allen) writes: >mike@turing.cs.unm.edu (Michael I. Bushnell) writes: >>On an exegetic basis, there is considerable debate about the meaning >>of the tetragrammaton. It is traditionally translated into most >>languages elliptically rather than as a proper name. Most English >>bibles use the word "LORD" written in small caps, following a >>tradition started (I think) by the KJV. The tetragrammaton is of great significance; it is the name of God the Almighty. "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth."(Ps. 83:18, KJ) >I'm not a Hebrew scholar, and I don't play one on TV (or the net), but >it is my understanding that the tradition of translating the >tetragrammaton as 'Lord' comes from the Masoretic text. The name of God >is written as the consonants YHWH, and the vowel pointings (diacritical >marks added above or below letters to indicate vowels -- there are only >consonants in the Hebrew alphabet) for the original word are not known. >The Masoretic text uses the vowel pointings for 'Adonai,' which is >'Lord.' When reading the Masoretic text, one would say 'Adonai' even >though 'YHWH' is printed, so as not to attempt to pronounce the holy >name of God. Interesting what Martin Luther had to say about this: "That they now allege the name Jehovah to be unpronounceable, they do not know what they are talking about...If it can be written with pen and ink, why should it not be spoken, which is much better than being written with pen and ink? Why do they not also call it unwriteable, unreadable or unthinkable? All things considered, there is something foul." >The tradition of translating YHWH into English as 'LORD' in all caps is >to distinguish between 'YHWH' and 'Adonai.' I have no idea if it >started with the KJV or earlier versions of the English Bible. I am not positive on which was the first to use 'LORD' in all caps, but I know that Tyndale used it in his translation. The Vulagate also substituted the word Dominus (Lord) in the place of the Tetragrammaton, for further info. I feel that it is extremely unfortunate and an insult to God to have his name deleted and substituted with another word. It is the name that Jesus wanted to be let sanctified (Matt. 6:9), and the name that Jesus wanted to make known and glorified (John 12:28, John 17:6,26). Peter quoted Joel as saying,"And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." (Acts 2:21, Joel 2:32). Fortunately many people have kept the name in their translations. "[The translators] were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament. . .This Memorial Name, explained in Ex. iii. 14,15, and emphasized as such over and over in the original text of the Old Testament, designates God as the personal God. . .This person name with its wealth of sacred associations, is now restored to the place in the sacred text to which it has an unquestionable claim." (American Standard Version, 1901) "The spelling and the pronunciation are not highly important. What is highly important is to keep it clear that this is a person name. There are several texts that cannot be properly understood if we translate this name by a common noun like 'Lord' or much worse, by a substantivized adjective [for example, the Eternal]." (Steven Byington, translator of The Bible in Living English) In any case, I don't think that Jewish tradition should have any relevance as to whether Christians should use the name or not. Jesus didn't seem to hold them in high regard. >If there are any Hebrew scholars out there who see anything I've said >which needs to be corrected, feel free. I am no Hebrew scholar either. But I don't think it takes a scholar to figure out what sounds better and makes more sense: "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enimies thy footstool," or "Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enimies thy footstool." (Ps. 110:1) /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Boris Chen || Berkeley, CA || boris@ocf.berkeley.edu | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Those knowing your name will trust in you, for you will certainly not| leave those looking for you, O Jehovah." (Ps. 9:10) | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ P.S. Please excuse the typos, if there are any. [One of the problems is that we don't know what the name actually is. There are conjectures, some of which may be probable, but it's not clear whether using a conjectural name is better than using "Lord". There's also a question of what time period you want to take as authoritative. By the time the NT was written, it's pretty clear that Lord was used, not the name. That is true of the Greek translation in use at the time, and the NT itself uses Lord for God, not a name. For the sake of accuracy in historical study, it is certainly good to understand that there was an actual name there, but if we started using it in prayers, public reading, etc., we would be reverting to a tradition that seems not to have been followed by Jesus or the Apostles. --clh]
boris@tornado.Berkeley.EDU (Boris Chen) (10/25/90)
In article <Oct.21.01.35.01.1990.24207@athos.rutgers.edu> boris@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU (Boris Chen) writes: >[One of the problems is that we don't know what the name actually is. >There are conjectures, some of which may be probable, but it's not >clear whether using a conjectural name is better than using "Lord". I don't understand what you are saying by this. Are you saying that we don't know the original pronunciation of the divine name? >There's also a question of what time period you want to take as >authoritative. By the time the NT was written, it's pretty clear that >Lord was used, not the name. That is true of the Greek translation in >use at the time, and the NT itself uses Lord for God, not a name. For >the sake of accuracy in historical study, it is certainly good to >understand that there was an actual name there, but if we started >using it in prayers, public reading, etc., we would be reverting to a >tradition that seems not to have been followed by Jesus or the >Apostles. --clh] Interestingly, texts that have survived from the time of Jesus and the apostles contain the divine name and not 'Lord.' For example, in the Septuagint Version (of which fragments have been found, and survive to our day) the divine name appears in them. "Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the compilers of the LXX [Septuagint] translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the tetragrammaton written in Hebrew characters in the Greek text. This custom was retained by later Jewish translators of the OT in the first centuries A.D." (the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, page 512) Later copies of the Septuagint though were altered to have 'Lord' replace the divine name. As for the NT, there is no real reason not to believe that the writers of the NT used the divine name when quoting Hebrew verses. Most likely, the reason that in texts such as the Vulgate replace the tetragrammaton with the word, 'Lord,' is the for the same reason that the same was done with the Greek translations of the Hebrew scriptures. "We know for a fact that Greek-speaking Jews continued to write YHVH [sorry I can't replicate the Hebrew] within their Greek Scriptures. Moreover, it is most unlikely that early conservative Greek-speaking Jewish Christians varied from this practice. Although in secondary references to God they probably used the words [God] and [Lord], it would have been extremely unusual for them to have dismissed the Tetragram from the biblical text itself. . . Since the Tetragram was still written in the copies of the Greek Bibles which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the NT writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text. . . But when it was removed from the Greek OT, it was also removed from the quotations of the OT in the NT. Thus somewhere around the beginning of the second century the use of surrogates must have crowded out the Tetragran in both Testaments." (Journal of Biblical Literature, by George Howard, Vol 96, No.1, March 1977, pp.76, 77) The importance of God's name to Christ and his followers is clearly evident in scripture. In the Lord's Prayer, Jesus said to God, "Hallowed be your name" (Matt. 6:9, NIV) And in John 17:26, Jesus in prayer told God how he made God's name known. It is doubtful that Jesus would follow the unscriptural Jewish superstition or tradition of that time to view God's name as unspeakable.(see also John 17:6) In Acts, we see Symeon related how "God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name."(Acts 15:14) In view of the times, Christians have a commission from Jesus to make disciples of people of all nations. When teaching these people, how would it be possible to identify the true God as different from the false gods of the nations? Only by using His personal name. /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Boris Chen || Berkeley, CA || boris@ocf.berkeley.edu | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| |"Those knowing your name will trust in you, for you will certainly not| |leave those looking for you, O Jehovah." (Ps. 9:10) | \----------------------------------------------------------------------/ [Actually, what I was saying is that we don't know the name itself, since we don't know the vowels. --clh]