ASC105@psuvm.psu.edu (11/09/90)
There seems to be some questioning about the healing of God. People
get sick for a number of reasons. Some are born blind or crippled.
These happenings are unfortunate, but for Christians there IS a way out.
In the Old Testament of the bible Deuteronomy 28 lists the blessings
and CURSES for following and not following the Law. Among the many
curses, sicknesses were listed. ALL other kinds of sicknesses
not listed in the Law were ALSO included.
However, Jesus did a great thing for those who believe on Him. According
to Galations 3, Jesus REDEEMED us from the curse of the Law. He took
on the curses when he hung on the cross. Therefore we who are in Christ
don't need to carry illness if we don't want to.
Matthew 8 mentions Jesus baring the sicknesses of people who needed
healing. Isaiah 53 mentions that by his wounds "we are healed." Whose
wounds were they before? Ours, but now they are His!
There are reasons for people getting sick. The bible mentions in John 5
about a person healed by Jesus. Jesus told him to stop sinning, or else
something worse may happen. Unrepentant sinning is a reason. If a person
gives Satan a foothold, Satan can overcome him with sickness.
(List of sins: grudges, lying, unforgiveness, stealing, and PRIDE)
Another reason is lack of faith. When Jesus went to his hometown very
few were healed because the people just did not believe. It was not that
Jesus would not heal them. The bible says that he COULD NOT. Under the
conditions of disbelief, a sickness, even on a true Christian, cannot
be purged.
Praise God! from
Allen S. Cheung
(Disciple of Christ)daemon@ucsd.edu (11/10/90)
In article <Nov.9.00.32.16.1990.28332@athos.rutgers.edu> ASC105@psuvm.psu.edu writes: ... > > There are reasons for people getting sick. The bible mentions in John 5 >about a person healed by Jesus. Jesus told him to stop sinning, or else >something worse may happen. Unrepentant sinning is a reason. If a person >gives Satan a foothold, Satan can overcome him with sickness. >(List of sins: grudges, lying, unforgiveness, stealing, and PRIDE) > Another reason is lack of faith. When Jesus went to his hometown very >few were healed because the people just did not believe. It was not that >Jesus would not heal them. The bible says that he COULD NOT. Under the >conditions of disbelief, a sickness, even on a true Christian, cannot >be purged. > > Praise God! from > Allen S. Cheung > (Disciple of Christ) This is the most truly and absolutely evil explanation of sickness that I have read. Why do you end a message that accuses your God of such petty cruelty with "Praise God"? If your God really does let people get sick as a punishment for "sin" or for "lack of faith" you should condemn and fight Him with all your strength, not praise Him. It is hard enough that bad things do happen to good people, without having sickness blamed on the sufferer. As for "COULD NOT", does this mean that you deny that Jesus was omnipotent God? (I should add, that although I am an atheist, I do not see the problem of evil as being a particularly strong problem. Along with everything else, it can always be explained with "God moves in mysterious ways" or whatever your favourite explanation is. It is just the blaming of sickness on the sin or lack of faith of those involved that angers me. It is not reasonable, since simple observation shows good people suffering and evil people in good health as well as the other way round. It is cruel, because it feeds on and encourages the human tendency to always wonder, is there something I could have done differently?) -- Patricia Shanahan ps@fps.com uucp : ucsd!celerity!ps phone: (619) 271-9940
etxtdi@diana.ericsson.se (11/13/90)
Hi everybody ! Not so often I post articles, by here is one. I have followed some articles by Allen S. Cheung about healing and Gods will about that. In the article <Nov.10.08.25.14.1990.25266@athos.rutgers.edu> Patricia Shanahan then reacts against Allen saying that sickness could have reasons, as for instance unrepentant sinning. I would not try to defend "one against the other", but I think this question is pretty interesting and often asked among believers as well as non believers. Patricias response shows that. My view IS basically Mr. Allens about sickness and healing in Jesus Name. I don't know if this particular post by Mr. Allen 100% expresses what he actually means by this. I think his previeous posts pretty well explains what it is all about. Patricia says: > This is the most truly and absolutely evil explanation of sickness that > I have read. Why do you end a message that accuses your God of such > petty cruelty with "Praise God"? If your God really does let people > get sick as a punishment for "sin" or for "lack of faith" you should > condemn and fight Him with all your strength, not praise Him. I agree with Patricia that IF God really let people get sick as a punishment for sin or lack of faith, the best thing would be to fight him or try to "convert" him or whatever. But doesn't Patricia and others understand that there are three parties involved here in this controversy? As Allen so clearly has said (and with which I do agree) Adam LET Satan take over the dominion on this earth which God in the first place gave to Adam. Adam (and we as his children) had really messed it up here! When any of Gods will has to be done here on earth, it has to be done IN THE NAME OF JESUS, because OUTSIDE of him rules the prince ofwwww this darkness. Jesus is the one that has defeated Satan and taken the power from him. But as long as God intended man to have dominion over the earth when He gave it (the dominion), Satan is in the positihon to use it in his destructive way. (By deception, lies and all kinds of terror, hasn't history shown?). God cannot "steal" it back from Satan, then God would be a lawbreaker. But if we don't care to enter into Jesus, or claiming healing in Jesus name, God cannot just "break in" and force his will onto people. Gods will is really 100% good in every aspect, He has a heart which trembles of love for His children. His grace is available in Jesus here on earth. That is why Jesus is SO important to bring to people. About punishment. Sometimes when man sins by will, God HAS to allow punishment for that sin to hit man. God has after all given the law, and sin HAS to be punished according to that. If man thus is outside Jesus, and persistently sins, God is forced to withdraw his protection, while Satan can reach man with attacks. It looks like God punishes man here, but since Jesus has paid for all our sins, we have the possibility to repent and go free, but if a man refuses that, the situation still occures that he has to be punished. Now normally this is not the kind of suffering Christians experience. Satan is a "spiritual terrorist" so he tries to attack "the good ones" anyway, and always. So what I need is the knowledge about this, the faith to stand against him and declare the Word about Jesus as the victory against Satan. "Resist the devil and he will flee from you". For those of you who are with me this far, In Jesus we are strong, and can "break down strongholds". About faith, faith is nothing hard or some desperate effort. Faith can be like a mustard seed, but the subject of our faith is great and powerful. It just has to do with the hearts childish trust in our father who has revealed himself in the Word through Jesus. God bless you all ! I am not really interested in debate, I just hope that some will be blessed by this and get to know our father better. Tord Ivarsson, Stockholm Sweden.
arm@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Alexander d Macalalad) (11/14/90)
I find it rather disturbing that some people have suggested that sickness is caused by sin. Besides flying in the face of modern medicine, this statement gives a distorted view of God (IMHO). One easy refutation is the observation that animals can become sick as well, and that disease can afflict every living organism. Unless people are willing to admit even bacteria as moral agents, I think we can safely conclude that sickness can be caused by many things other than sin. The more interesting question is why this type of thinking is so strong not only in Christianity, but in other religions as well. Why are sickness and suffering equated with punishment from God and/or a consequence of sin? Certainly we find much of this philosophy in the Bible, but such simple- minded analysis falls flat when confronted with stories like Job. I suggest that sickness and suffering are rather just a part of the process of life. And as a part of life, we can use it as an opportunity to deepen our relationship with God. A meditation on the beatitudes might be helpful. Alex Macalalad [The statement that sickness is caused by sin can be taken in two ways. One is that specific illnesses are caused by the sin of that person. The other is that the existence of sickness as a phenomenon is caused by the existence of sin in general. The second is probably easier to defend. The concept is that the Fall affected the entire world. Humans were intended to be the rulers and caretakers of creation, and when we became unable to carry out this role, creation as a whole suffered. The issue of sin and suffering is a large one, which I don't intend to treat completely here. But I think the general impression one gets from the Bible is that sin always has consequences, but those consequences are not always limited to the sinner, and indeed in some cases the most visible consequences fall on others. --clh]
ASPRINGMAN@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU (DAYSPRING) (11/14/90)
Dear Allen,
I'm having trouble posting so could you post this for me? You may add
your reply if you wish, or even not post it. It's up to you.
Well, brother, I have to disagree with your doctrine about sickness. I
don't disagree that we can get sick by sinning. I don't disagree that we can
get well because of our faith. I disagree with your concept of the curse and
how Jesus took it away. Christians die. Death was part of the curse.
Christians experience pain during childbirth. That pain was part of the curse.
I'm not sure sickness was part of the curse, but assuming it was, it is not a
sure sign of sin or lack of faith.
On a less biblical note, I have become healthy both during the time before
I came to Christ and during periods of sin in my Christian walk. It was not my
faith that healed me. It was pills, sleep, good food, and attention from my
mother :)
If asked, I will post what I think of Jesus' death in relation to the Old
Testament and it's implications on healing.
In Jesus,
Andrew
Andrew William Springman of Heaven. Temporary residence: Wesleyan University
Middletown, CT 06457
Aspringman@Wesleyan.Bitnet or @Eagle.Wesleyan.Edu USA, Earth