gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (11/10/90)
To answer the question, "What happened in 1925?", let us pretend that we
are Jehovah's Witnesses living in the early 1920s. Our message is:
Millions Now Living Will Never Die! That is also the title of a book we
distribute door-to-door. The book tells us that Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob will rise from the dead soon, in 1925: "There fore we may
confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac,
Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the
Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human
perfection." ('Millions Now Living Will Never Die,' 1920, pp. 89, 90).
The Watchtower Society says we should put our own interests aside and
spend more time preaching this "good news." We don't have time to do
other things--the end is so very near!
Isn't it strange how some people can doubt the Watchtower's predictions
about the year 1925? After all, 'The Watchtower' of April 1, 1923,
said: "1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures... As to Noah, the
Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah
had...upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (p. 106). And
again, here in 'The Watchtower' of July 15, 1924, page 211, we read:
"The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the
Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914."
Finally 1925 arrives; we can hardly wait to open our January issue of
'The Watchtower'! Here on page 3 it says: "The year 1925 is here. With
great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many
have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be
changed to heavenly glory during this year." Oh yes, this is truly our
hope, based on the Society's interpretation of the Scriptures to us!
Now, let's read on. The Society says: "This may be accomplished. It
may not be." It may not be!? What!? Didn't the Society say it was the
Scriptures that foretold the year 1925? Many of us have sold our homes,
others have quit school to do this work full time! What will our
friends and neighbors think?
Yes, the Society mislead many to believe that 1925 was a Bible date
indicating the return of the ancient Hebrew princes. When individual
Witnesses became upset and demanded an explanation for the failure of
these princes to arrive on time, 'The Watchtower' (Sept. 1, 1925, p.
262) said this: "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into
the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of
the work, and that therefore it would be needless for them to do more."
The Society not only met with prophetic disaster in 1914 and 1925, but
during World War II as well. As you may already know, the Society
misrepresented the chaos of WWI by claiming it was Armageddon. But what
about WWII? At the present time, the Society denies that it prophesied
the end during WWII as they had during WWI. In the 'Kingdom Ministry,'
January 1968, p. 5, it says: "During World War I God's people expected
it to lead directly into Armageddon, but Jehovah prevented such a climax
at that time. We didn't succumb to such an expectation during World War
II."
Is this a true statement? Well, here is what the Society said in
'Consolation,' October 29, 1941, p. 11: "Meantime the German people are
awakening to their horrible predicament...the near future will bring and
is already hastening to bring them--Armageddon, the battle of that great
day of God Almighty."
But the evidence does not end here. The Society did connect WWII with
Armageddon. They predicted the destruction of Germany, not by the
Allied nations, but by Jehovah God! In the December issue of 'The
Watchtower' magazine, they were extremely specific and made these
points:
1. WWII will not end in decisive victory for either side because the
Bibleprophecy will not allow it. (December 15, 1941, p. 372)
2. America and England will turn into dictatorships. (December 15,
1941, p. 372)
3. The end of Nazi rule will mark the end of demon rule. In other
words, God will rule when the Nazis are defeated. (December 15, 1941, p.
377)
All of these prophecies deceived many. Today, the Society claims not to
have linked WWII with Armageddon. Yet their own magazines say
otherwise.
There were other things that the Society said about WWII as well. The
booklet 'Judge Rutherford Uncovers Fifth Column' said in 1940 that the
Nazis would destroy the British Empire: "...I [Judge Rutherford] stated
that the Nazis and Fascists were bent upon destroying the British
Empire, and that that would be accomplished." (p. 15). They said in the
September 15, 1941 issue of 'The Watchtower' (p. 288) that it was just a
matter of "the reamining months before Armageddon." As I have already
pointed out, the Society prophesied the return of Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob for 1925. Few people are aware of the fact, however, that the
Society fell into the same false teaching during WWII. According to
'Consolation,' May 27, 1942, on page 13, these ancient Hebrew princes
were due to return from the dead "any day now." It seems to me that
their day and Armageddon are long overdue!
The Society has not ceased to have problems with WWII. For quite a
number of years, the Society remained prophetically quiet. Then in the
August 15, 1968 issue of 'The Watchtower' appeared an article titled
"Why are you looking forward to 1975?" This article set the stage for
the next major prophecy from the Society for Armageddon and the end of
things. The text of this article was based upon a speech given by Fred
Franz, then vice president of the Organization, now President since the
death of Nathan Knorr. The premise is that 6,000 years of man's
existence upon earth would occur in 1975.
Then in the 'Kingdom Ministry' for June 1969, we find the following
statements:
"In view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this
system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous. Many young
brothers and sisters were offered scholarships or employment that
promised fine pay. However, they turned them down and put spiritual
interests first." (page 3)
Then again in the 'Kingdom Ministry' for May 1974, we find these
statements:
"Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to
increase your activity? Reports are heard of brothers selling their
homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in
this old system in the pioneer service [note: pioneering is full-time
ministry]. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time
remaining before the wicked world's end. -- 1 John 2:17. Circumstances
such as poor health or responsibilities with your family may limit what
you can do in the field ministry. And yet, the pioneer ranks include
many who have health limitations, as well as some persons with
families."
When 1975 came and went without the end of the world, many Witnesses
were left holding the bag so to speak. They were very upset and had
every right to be. Let me quote again from 'The Watchtower.' This time
from the April 1, 1972 issue, page 197,
"Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of
God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be
done is to review the record. What does it show?"
Now, I've presented the record. Will one of the Witnesses on the net
please explain this record to me and others on the net? If the Society
presents the truth of Jehovah God to the world, then please explain this
lack of accurate prophecy.
Standing on the Solid Rock,
Gene Grosswcsa@iwsgw.att.com (Willard Smith) (11/13/90)
I think that we have to be a little bit careful in dealing with the
significance of 1975 to Jehovah Witnesses.
Between 1973 and 1975 I served as a Mormon missionary in England. The
Jehovah Witnesses were extremely active proselyters in England, and
people often mistook us as Jehovah Witnesses. Since I had never met
a Jehovah Witness before in my life, I decided to collect and read as
much of their literature as I could.
I would get two messages concerning the year 1975. One, from people who
had been proselyted by Jehovah Witnesses, would state that 1975 was
suppose to mark the end of the world or the second coming of Christ or
something equally cataclysmic. When I would ask Jehovah Witnesses about
the significance of 1975, they wouldn't tell me. They would get non-
committal, or they would say something like, "You'll find out" in a tone
reminiscent of Bill Cosby's "How long can you tred water?"
I looked everywhere in their literature for something that pinned down
1975 and found nothing. I remember in particular one family who had
been studying with the Jehovah Witnesses for approximately a year and
had some pretty neat study materials that I had never seen before.
They told me that 1975 was suppose to mark the end of the world and the
beginning of the 1000 years of peace. The father told me that there was
a printed reference to 1975 in one of his study books and for an hour
tried to find it but never did.
When 1975 began, there was a surge in Jehovah Witness proselyting
activity in the Eastern midlands of England (where I was working as Zone
Leader). Lots of people remarked on it. Usually Jehovah Witnesses would
work an area and then leave it alone for about six months, but January
thru March 1975 they would go through the same area two or three times
in a single month. We assumed that they would get an entire congregation
working several nights a week.
Other Mormon missionaries throughout the Midlands and North Wales told me
the same thing, 1975 held some kind of major significance for Jehovah
Witnesses. Everyone would repeat the same "End of the World" story, but I
never actually heard a Jehovah Witness say that and I never read it in any
of their literature.
After returning to the "states" in mid-1975, I had occasion to remark on
this phenomenon with a couple of friends who had served missions in France
and Italy. Both of them told me that they had observed the same behavior
and had heard the same story. The friend who had been in France told me
that a Jehovah Witness had actually told him that the world was going to
end in 1975.
I honestly don't know the significance of 1975 for Jehovah Witnesses,
they wouldn't tell me. I do know that it was not a local phenomenon,
having occurred throughout England, France, and Italy. I frankly don't
know what was going on in the "states" at the time except for Watergate.
Gene Gross's reprint of articles from _Watchtower_ and _Kingdom Ministry_
are interesting, but still inconclusive. After all this time, I would like
to know (either from a Jehovah Witness who was around in 1975 or from their
literature, preferably both) the significance of 1975 and an explaination
for the behavior which I observed.
--
Willard C. Smith att!cbnewsc!iwsgw!wcsa wcsa@iwsgw.att.com
"It's life, Captain, but not as we know it."cj@modernlvr.wpd.sgi.com (C J Silverio) (11/14/90)
--- wcsa@iwsgw.att.com (Willard Smith) writes: |I think that we have to be a little bit careful in dealing with the |significance of 1975 to Jehovah Witnesses. |I honestly don't know the significance of 1975 for Jehovah Witnesses, |they wouldn't tell me. I do know that it was not a local phenomenon, |having occurred throughout England, France, and Italy. I frankly don't |know what was going on in the "states" at the time except for Watergate. |Gene Gross's reprint of articles from _Watchtower_ and _Kingdom Ministry_ |are interesting, but still inconclusive. After all this time, I would like |to know (either from a Jehovah Witness who was around in 1975 or from their |literature, preferably both) the significance of 1975 and an explaination |for the behavior which I observed. Hmmm. I don't know how helpful this will be, but I can give you some scraps of information. My parents have been Witnesses since 1970 or so, and hence were around for the 1975 thing. (They are still Witnesses.) I was ten at the time, but a fairly aware & inquisitive ten. I wasn't aware that 1975 was anything special. About ten years later, I asked my parents what the scoop was (quite frankly, hoping to learn something to the detriment of the Society, to add to my growing disdain for all christians). They told me the following: 1. The Society hadn't ever announced that 1975 was the end of "this system of things," at least not with the kind of fervor that marked their turn-of-the-century era date-announcements. 2. The Society had said, in a Watchtower article, that 1975 was the end of 6000 years of man's existence, according to their (always amusing) calculations. That is, 6000 years since Adam's creation. 3. Some people, whom my parents apparently considered quite foolish & naive at the time, jumped to conclusions. They then did the stupid things all such foolish people will do in those circumstances: get into debt, act extra-faithful by preaching extra-hard, & announce their convictions of impending Armageddon to all the world. Many of these people left the Witnesses in 1976, understandably. I did some searching through my parents' library to substantiate this. I think what they said was true: I couldn't find any literature in which the Society announced that 1975 was The Year. I *did* find the Adam article. I don't remember seeing any attempts by the Society to squelch this noisy apocalypse-announcing, so they're not entirely off the hook. (The "Kingdom Ministries" from this time are probably an excellent source for the Real Scoop, BTW.) All the "the time is short, pioneer now" references from 1975 really prove nothing: they've been improvising on that theme since their beginning. They are doing it now, I imagine. They've always been willing to laud people who sell houses, defer children or marriages, and give up much of the lives to submerge themselves in "the Truth". (I do wonder how they're dealing with their self-imposed "one generation since 1914" deadline. That one is well-documented, and running out fast. Hmmm.) I'd be interested in reading something from a Witness who was an active adult at the time, to confirm any of this (perhaps provide references), or to set me straight on any of these points. Let's hope that whoever it is can manage to be honest, and non-revisionist. I no longer have access to the kind of JW library my parents have, so I can't check my facts. (It's sort of amusing for me to watch the adherents of one set of superstitions bash the adherents of another for some folly. You all seem equally foolish from where I'm sitting.) --- cj%modernlvr.wpd@sgi.com C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson
gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (11/17/90)
In article <Nov.14.03.39.06.1990.25381@athos.rutgers.edu> cj@modernlvr.wpd.sgi.com (C J Silverio) writes: > >I'd be interested in reading something from a Witness who was >an active adult at the time, to confirm any of this (perhaps >provide references), or to set me straight on any of these >points. Let's hope that whoever it is can manage to be honest, >and non-revisionist. I no longer have access to the kind of JW >library my parents have, so I can't check my facts. > >(It's sort of amusing for me to watch the adherents of one set >of superstitions bash the adherents of another for some folly. >You all seem equally foolish from where I'm sitting.) Let me set the record straight here. I studied with the Witnesses for several years from the mid-50s on. My whole family was baptised, except for me. Prior to my baptism, I began to question several of the doctrinal positions held by the Society. My questions were never answered. I have not one thing against any individual publisher who comes to my door though I disagree with them doctrinally. However, I do have a bone to pick with the Governing Body. They are the ones who are responsible for the doctrine and the literature published by the Society. It is to them that I would like to address my questions, and have tried on many occasions, but to no avail. So I'm left with having to ask my questions of the individual publishers who come to my door or who sometimes show up on the net (or one of the Christian BBS's that I modem into via my PC at home). I have no need to revise the Society's history because it would be far too easy for a Witness to call me on a misquote or a misinterpretation. I well recognize the authority that the Society has taken as its mantle, which is something that outsiders have never quite understood. The Society, according to its own publications, is Jehovah God's mouthpiece here on earth. It is the "Ark" of safety for surviving Armageddon. To leave it is no small matter, which I'm sure any Witness out there reading this will readily admit. So please do not take what I did lightly; I never have. To leave, even though I was not baptised, was no small matter. I agonized for well over a year before making my decision. I lost many good friends over my decision, and my relationship with my family was extremely strained forever afterwards. 1975 passed without anything happening -- as had 1881, 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, and the 1940's. Much publicity was given by others as to the failure of the organization's expectations surrounding 1975. There was considerable talk among Jehovah's Witnesses themselves. However, to my way of thinking, most of what was said did not touch upon the major point of the matter. For me, the real issue goes far beyond that of some individual's accuracy or inaccuracy or even an organizations's reliability or untrustworthiness. Though these are important issues, and I don't want to lose sight of them in the course of conversation. To me the most important factor is how such predictions ultimately reflect on God and on His Word. When anyone makes such forecasts and says that they are doing it on the basis of the Bible, builds up arguments for these from the Bible, assert that they are God's "channel" of communication -- what is the effect when their forecasts prove false? Does it honor God or build up faith in Him and in the reliability of His Word? Or is the opposite the result? Does it not give added inducement for some to feel justified in placing little importance upon the Bible's message and teachings? Those Witnesses who made major changes in their lives in most cases could, and did, pick up the pieces and go on living in spite of being disillusioned. Not all could. Whatever, the case, however, serious damage had been done in more ways than one. Please spare me the emotive and inflammatory comments. They serve no useful purpose in the search for truth. And that is all that I'm after here. And I do understand why most of the Witnesses on the net do not openly comment to me or respond to my postings. They are under obligation not to associate with someone who is disfellowshiped (which I'm not) or who is disassociated. And this includes not talking with them. This is indeed unfortunate in that I still have questions, but no answers. I want answers, but I'm not going to blindly follow the "party-line" as it were. For the glory of God and of the Lamb, Gene Gross
boris@tornado.Berkeley.EDU (Boris Chen) (11/23/90)
As for the 1975 thing, I have reletively recently read the article discussing the year 1975. Gene's mentioning of it in his article and the context that he put it in, implies that the governing body was designating 1975 as the date of Armageddon. That is clearly not true. The article discusses how that date is 6000 years from the creation of Adam. And and that would indicate that the time is near. But, of note is the fact that at the end of the article it makes clear that there can be no certainty that Armageddon would come in 1975. Many took it that way, and that was wrong. Many people put hope in a date rather than having true faith in God, thus as expected they left after the end didn't come at that time. Jehovah's witnesses have always reiterated the view that the time is near. Even the persons in the New Testament (Jesus, Peter, Paul) urged Christians to "keep on the watch," "keep awake," to be "awaiting and keeping close in mind the day of the Lord," etc. An alert stance is to be expected of Christians for it will come as "a thief." +==================================================================+ + Boris Chen || Berkeley, CA || boris@ocf.berkeley.edu + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + "And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares, and... + + neither will they learn war anymore." ---Micah 4:3 + +==================================================================+
muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /1000000) (11/26/90)
boris@tornado.Berkeley.EDU (Boris Chen) writes: >As for the 1975 thing, I have reletively recently read the article >discussing the year 1975. Gene's mentioning of it in his article >and the context that he put it in, implies that the governing >body was designating 1975 as the date of Armageddon. That is clearly >not true. The article discusses how that date is 6000 years from the >creation of Adam. And and that would indicate that the time is near. >But, of note is the fact that at the end of the article it makes clear >that there can be no certainty that Armageddon would come in 1975. >Many took it that way, and that was wrong. Many people put hope in >a date rather than having true faith in God, thus as expected they >left after the end didn't come at that time. I have seen a book printed by the Watchtower, myself, with a timetable. In the timetable was the following line (about): autumn 1975: End of the normal time. Coming of Armageddon. (it was a dutch version) I am sure I am not mistaken. An ex-Jehovas Witness who came to give a lecture at our christian student group took it with him, he had kept the book after 1975 although everyone had to give back the book at and of 1975, and almost all of them were destroyed. It is sure for me that a specific date was predicted and later the Watchtower tried to cover up the error. -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht muts@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands