tywang@wolf.cs.washington.edu (12/04/90)
I have one question concerning of eternity. Is that guaranteed that we must live happily if we get the eternal life from God? But, say if my beloved one could not get this eternal happiness, would I be still living happily eternally? I think those relationship like husband and wife, parents and children, etc... are very important to everyone. I don't think that God will tell you to forget or discard all those lovable memory with your beloved ones, but with these memory, one would not feel so happy in seeing his beloved ones could not get the eternal happiness, thus he himself could not (also) get the eternal happiness. Even though there is not such relationship like dad and son.... or whatsoever existing in 'heaven', the memory of those happy times still exists. If one discards those memory, it means he doesn't love his dad, mom, brother, sister, lover, and so on...... however, I think if you really love someone, you would not be still that happy in seeing that they have the eternal pain ( or say do not own the eternal life). I would really appreciate if someone could share his opinion with me........ :-) Tak Yin Wang Computer Science of University of Washington, Seattle.
uriel@oak.circa.ufl.edu (Scott Whitmore) (12/06/90)
In article <Dec.4.00.59.15.1990.626@athos.rutgers.edu>, tywang@wolf.cs.washington.edu writes: > > I have one question concerning of eternity. Is that guaranteed that >we must live happily if we get the eternal life from God? But, say if my >beloved one could not get this eternal happiness, would I be still living >happily eternally? [lots deleted] This is a good question, and fortunately it's already been covered for me by C.S. Lewis in _The_Great_Divorce_ (a book I heartily recommend for anyone) so I don't have as much thinking to do :-). For one thing, Christ told us that NONE of the prior relationships we had while on earth will be binding in quite the same way. (I offer Matt. 22:30. If marriage is no more in heaven, then I can't imagine that any less intimate relationships will exist either.) The reason for this is not that God is going to lock each of us up in a room to ourselves where only He can get to us. Quite the contrary! (Rev. 7:9 may apply here.) All of the Body of Christ are brothers and sisters who will be together forevermore -- but our primary attention will not be upon each other, but on Him. No pleasure of mind or body that can be had on earth will compare to the joy of His presence in Heaven. What about relatives or friends of mine who are damned? (I'm sure there will be at least one.) I might expect I would, even SHOULD, be sad to see them forever separated from me, yet I expect I'd be reminded that (a) I made my choice, he made his. God's justice has been done. (b) For as many people I've "lost" this way, I have gained many, many more in return, just as Job regained his fortune sevenfold after going through his trials. They're not the SAME people who I lost, but even that grief becomes a glory for me through God's grace. Imagine how God, who CREATED that person and DIED for him, feels about seeing him in hell. Yet He is not sad, but has the fullness of joy. Trust Him that you'll have the same. >Tak Yin Wang > >Computer Science of University of Washington, Seattle. My sincere apologies, as always, if I offend. Scott -- Scott Whitmore Internet: uriel@maple.circa.ufl.edu 24-510 Tolbert Hall or uriel@maple.decnet%pine.circa.ufl.edu Gainesville, FL 32612 (USA) Friendly Neighborhood Standard Disclaimer "The Devil...the prowde spirit...cannot bear to be mocked." --Thomas More (?)
jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com (12/06/90)
Love of parents, children, etc., is a natural love. The love of God in Heaven is a supernatural one, besides which all other loves pale in comparison. Natural loves spring from human nature, the love of God springs from the Divine nature (God's grace). The love of God in Heaven is so far beyond any merely natural affection, that the damnation of someone who was loved on earth will not be a source of sadness. Once a person sees God as He is -- the essential happiness of Heaven -- all created things seem as nothing. As they are, in comparison with the Creator. Don't forget that creatures are only faint reflections of the perfections of the Creator. Joe Buehler
wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) (12/06/90)
In article <Dec.4.00.59.15.1990.626@athos.rutgers.edu> tywang@wolf.cs.washington.edu writes: > > I have one question concerning of eternity. Is that guaranteed that >we must live happily if we get the eternal life from God? But, say if my >beloved one could not get this eternal happiness, would I be still living >happily eternally? I think those relationship like husband and wife, parents >and children, etc... are very important to everyone. I don't think that >God will tell you to forget or discard all those lovable memory with your >beloved ones, but with these memory, one would not feel so happy in seeing >his beloved ones could not get the eternal happiness, thus he himself could >not (also) get the eternal happiness. >Tak Yin Wang I can appreciate the difficulty this presents to you, and to many of us. I can't sugarcoat my answer, so I'll tell it to you straight (shades of Butch Cassidy :-) ). In Luke 14:26 Jesus said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Jesus used strong words here to shock people into the realization that they must put God first in their lives, in accordance with the first and second commandments, particularly "You shall have no other gods before me!" Even our love for our own life must come after our love for God. Similarly in Matthew 10:37 Jesus said the same thing with less strong words: "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." The reason why we must be willing to put God before our relatives, is that sometimes our faith is tested by the failure of our relatives to believe in God as we do. Jesus explained this just prior to Matt 10:37 in 10:34-36: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-- a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' " He is not talking about physical struggles or a physical sword, but spiritual struggles and the 'sharp, double-edged sword' of God's Word (Heb. 4:12). The risk, of course, is that unbelieving relatives can drown our own faith. I read somewhere, a few years ago, that Samuel Clemens, (Mark Twain) married a good Christian woman. He was no Christian, but out of love for her, he 'tried out' Christianity. It seems he really tried, and would attend church with her, studied the Bible, etc., but after a while he had to give it up (You might read his 'Letters from the earth' if you question this, but I can't really recommend the book). I seem to recall that after a while, through her life with her husband (who I think we must admit had a strong personality) the wife lost her faith. I think this example shows why a Christian has to be prepared to put his love for God before his love for his relatives. So if you love your relatives, as you should, then you must be a witness to them of Christ's love, of his redemption and resurrection, and of the salvation that he offers them as a free gift, purchased with his blood. I don't pretend that this is easy, but true love is not manifested by outward peace. This much being said, I must say something more to avoid false impressions. 'Putting God first' in our lives is an act of Law. For the christian this does not mean that it is a requirement that we must meet to obtain salvation, but that it is an unavoidable, though perhaps weak, result of faith. This is what the Bible calls 'sanctification', 1 Peter 1:2. David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran. "Oh, blest the house where, whate'er befall, Where Jesus Christ is all in all! Yes, if He were not dwelling there, How dark and poor and void it were! "Oh, blest the house where faith ye find And all within have set their mind To trust their God and serve Him still And do in all His holy will! "Then here will I and mine today A solemn covenant make and say: Though all the world forsake Thy Word, I and my house will serve the Lord." --"Wohl einem Haus, da Jesus Christ" v. 1,2,5 --Christoph C.L. von Pfeil, 1782 --from "The Lutheran Hymnal" #625. My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston.
hays@apollo.hp.com (John Hays) (12/12/90)
Of course the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) believe that Family relationships can continue after death. John