[soc.religion.christian] Lucifer\

cms@gatech.edu (12/12/90)

In article <Dec.4.01.03.27.1990.827@athos.rutgers.edu>, dcyprich@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Dusan J. Cyprich) writes:
>     Hi Joel. Read Isaiah 14:12-15. It talks about how Satan wanted to be 
> like God (in His place) and how Lucifer is cast out of Heaven. It should 
> give you a start ... 
>  
>     God bless
>     djc
> 
> [huh?  Is 14:12-15 is part of a "taunt against the king of Babylon"
> (14:4).  The reference to him as the Day Star, Son of the Dawn looks
> to me like an ironical comment on his pride, since the rest of the
> passage is more appropriate to a king than Satan.  --clh]

 My Pocket Catholic Dictionary (I can't seem to locate the Modern 
Catholic Dictionary anywhere) says:

"LUCIFER.  The name is sometimes applied to a king of Babylon
(Isaiah 14:12), but the Fathers of the Church commonly identify 
Lucifer with Satan, leader of the fallen angels.  In the Church's 
writings it is a synonym for the devil, the Prince of Darkness, who 
before he fell was an angel of light.  In the Scriptures, Christ is 
also called Phosphoros -- Light-Bearer (II Peter 1:19).  (Etym. Latin 
lucifer, light-bearer.)"

-- 
                                   Sincerely,
Cindy Smith
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kutz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth J. Kutz) (12/14/90)

In article <Dec.11.22.30.37.1990.28296@athos.rutgers.edu>, dragon!cms@gatech.edu writes:
> In article <Dec.4.01.03.27.1990.827@athos.rutgers.edu>, dcyprich@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Dusan J. Cyprich) writes:
> >     Hi Joel. Read Isaiah 14:12-15. It talks about how Satan wanted to be 
> > like God (in His place) and how Lucifer is cast out of Heaven. It should 
> > give you a start ... 
> >  
> >     God bless
> >     djc
> > 
> > [huh?  Is 14:12-15 is part of a "taunt against the king of Babylon"
> > (14:4).  The reference to him as the Day Star, Son of the Dawn looks
> > to me like an ironical comment on his pride, since the rest of the
> > passage is more appropriate to a king than Satan.  --clh]

If you apply this hermeunitical principal to Is 14, why don't you apply
it to Ps 22 or Is 53?  The answer to that (if I may speak for you :-)
lies in the fact that the NT verifies (as well as some Jewish tradition)
that Ps 22 and Is 53 have dual applicability.

I believe Jesus' statement that he saw Satan fall from heaven provides
the NT verifcation we need to Is 14.  Isa 14:12-14 uses words which
go beyond a complete human fulfillment.  The very same thing is true
for Is 53:5,6,10,11,12.  I believe the context, imagery, Jesus' words,
and interpretational consistency make a strong case that Isa 14 is
referring to Satan.


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