dpc@cbnews.att.com (12/11/90)
I have a question concerning the difference of beliefs between the Assembly of God denomination and the American Baptist. Are the Assembly's charismatic (i.e. belief in tongues and gifts of the Holy Spirit)? I currently attend a American Baptist service and was wondering what the difference in beliefs and services were. DANA
SLMBH@cunyvm.bitnet (TJ) (12/13/90)
Hi Dana, I was wondering what does American Baptist mean and what do you believe in (i.e., Holy Spirit)? Also, what is the difference between an American Baptist and Baptist? [Baptist is normally used to refer to a whole church tradition. The current U.S. groups can be traced to part of the Puritan movement in 17th Cent. England, although Baptists generally see some spiritual connection with the "left wing" of the Reformation (those who believed churches should be made up only of committed believers, rather than being State churches -- these folks were typically persecuted by Catholics, Lutherans, and Calvinists alike). Originally the U.S. Baptist groups had Calvinist theology, and were distinguished primarily by their commitment to the "gathered church", believer's baptism (i.e. adult baptism), their lack of binding creeds, and their lack of strong ecclesiastical government. Since then many (most?) Baptists have rejected much of the Calvinist tradition, particularly predestination. However they still believe in the church as a group of committed people and adult baptism. They tend to have an "evangelical" theology, emphasizing the experience of Christ as savior and the authority of Scripture. There seems to have been a recent tendency to "tighten up" in various ways. Two of the larger groups, the Southern Baptists and American Baptists, have done so in different ways. The Southern Baptists, amid bitter fighting, are now imposing what amounts to creedal tests on seminary faculty, as they require belief in inerrancy. The American Baptists in 1972 reorganized and now have a somewhat more connectional church polity that is traditional for Baptists. Traditionally, the only Baptist organizations beyond the local church are special-purpose organizations such as mission groups, and national "conventions". The conventions are not connectional denominations like say the Catholic or even Methodist Church. However they allow churches to cooperate in areas such as running seminaries and carrying out missions. These conventions claim no authority over local churches. There are about 30 million Baptists in the U.S. The largest of the conventions is the Southern Baptist Convention, with 14 million. Next are two predominately black groups, the National Baptist Convention, USA (6 million), and National Baptist Convention of American (3.5). At one point the American Baptist Convention was similar, though more liberal. However in 1972 it reorganizewd into the American Baptist Churches in the USA. I have few details, but my reference says that it is more connectional than typical for Baptists, i.e. that the regional and national level has a bit more authority. It has about 1.5 million members. American Baptists typically are a bit more receptive towards Biblical criticism and other "liberal" issues than Southern Baptists. I believe I've even heard of female American Baptist pastors, though I could be wrong. --clh]
davidh@tektronix.tek.com (David L Hatcher) (12/13/90)
There is a very interesting article on the front page of the December 11th issue of the Wall Street Journal that you might want to read. They claim to be the fastest growing denomination. But $15 million churches to seat 3,500 and $500k sound systems seems a little to much for me personally. According to the article there is a lot of money flowing with in that church. Some for very questionable reasons. But what seems even more far out, to me anyway, is the "flight toward heaven on hidden wires" by Rev. Barnett. Read the article. It's very interesting. I'm interested in what the readers of this news group think if it. David Hatcher
kday@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Day) (12/14/90)
In article <Dec.11.01.05.34.1990.7730@athos.rutgers.edu> dpc@cbnews.att.com writes: >I have a question concerning the difference of beliefs >between the Assembly of God denomination and the >American Baptist. > >Are the Assembly's charismatic (i.e. belief in tongues and >gifts of the Holy Spirit)? > Yes, the Assembly of God denomination is charismatic. That is basicalyy the only difference in beliefs unless the American Baptists are different from the Southern Baptists. K. Scott Day David Taylor Research Center Bethesda, Maryland ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "He who gives to the poor will not lack, but he who hides his eyes will have many curses." -Proverbs 28:27 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
jkk@.uucp (John Kingston) (12/17/90)
As I understand it, the Assemblies of God are a Pentecostal denomination. They have always believed in the availability and use of "charismatic gifts". The Pentecostal movement is generally said to have started with the "Azusa Street Revival" of 1906 in California, where the "charismatic gifts" began to be exercised by many people. This outpouring of [the] Holy Spirit spread from there to other parts of the U.S., into Europe and around the world. The main result today is the Pentecostal denominations. I'm not quite sure how the various denominations came about, although I suspect that disagreements on church government had something to do with it, since the two main Pentecostal denominations in the U.K. (Assemblies of God and Elim) have quite different methods of appointing pastors to churches. John Kingston, AI Applications Institute, University of Edinburgh, 80 South Bridge, Edinburgh EH1 1HN, Scotland E-mail jkk@uk.ac.ed.aiai, phone 031-225 4464 ext. 229 FAX: 031 226 2730 Arpanet: J.Kingston%uk.ac.ed@nfsnet-relay.ac.uk TELEX: 727442 UNIVED G [Of course the pentacostal movement also spread into some of the more traditional churches, particularly the Catholic and Episcopalean Churches. --clh]
jameso@lindir.wr.tek.com (Jim Ormond) (12/17/90)
In article <Dec.13.04.52.30.1990.528@athos.rutgers.edu>, SLMBH@cunyvm.bitnet (TJ) writes: > Hi Dana, > > I was wondering what does American Baptist mean and what do you believe in > (i.e., Holy Spirit)? > > Also, what is the difference between an American Baptist and Baptist? To which OFM gives a very good summary. I am an American Baptist, so perhaps I can expand on a few points and help shed at least a couple more photons of light on this subject. > [...The Southern Baptists, amid bitter fighting, are now imposing > what amounts to creedal tests on seminary faculty, as they require > belief in inerrancy. The American Baptists in 1972 reorganized and > now have a somewhat more connectional church polity that is > traditional for Baptists... The conventions are not connectional > denominations like say the Catholic or even Methodist Church. However > they allow churches to cooperate in areas such as running seminaries and > carrying out missions. These conventions claim no authority over local > churches. There are about 30 million Baptists in the U.S. The This is an important point (at least for an American Baptist :-). A more "connectional" polity does not imply a more authoritative one in the sense of handing down decisions for the local church congregation. In our system, it really means an increased level of cooperation among the various congregations through our local, regional, and national organizations. It still remains as a Baptist mainstay that the highest human authority over the local congregation is their own church board. Some congregations have boards of deacons and deaconesses, and a board of trustees, while others (such as mine) operate under what we call a "one-board system" where the members of the board are the chairpersons of the various operating committees (i.e., Christian Ed., Membership, Worship, Stewardship, Missions, etc.). > At one point the American Baptist Convention was > similar, though more liberal. However in 1972 it reorganizewd into > the American Baptist Churches in the USA. I have few details, but my > reference says that it is more connectional than typical for Baptists, > i.e. that the regional and national level has a bit more authority. We still decide denominational issues at a convention. I believe the manner in which more authority was given to regional and national officials is in carrying on the "business" of ABC/USA in such areas as commissioning and assigning missionaries and running the miriad of American Baptist organizations (other than churches). > It has about 1.5 million members. American Baptists typically are a > bit more receptive towards Biblical criticism and other "liberal" > issues than Southern Baptists. I believe I've even heard of female > American Baptist pastors, though I could be wrong. Yes, as a denomination we do tend to be more liberal than most of the other types of Baptist. As an example, which also addresses the question of women in ministry, we have many ordained women in positions of leadership both at the congregational level as pastors and assistant pastors, and at the regional and national levels as ministers of education, missions, outreach, and so forth. In fact, my own pastor is a woman. Before we hired her she was Assistant Pastor at an Amercan Baptist church in Santa Rosa, CA. I was on the pastoral search committee, and out of the 10 profiles (resume's) we studied, three of the prospective pastors were women. Since we're a rather new congregation (less than 3 years old) and can't afford her full-time (yet), she is also on staff part-time with our state organization (American Baptist Churches of Oregon) as Minister of Education for the state. Another American Baptist church in the Portland area has a husband-and-wife team (both of them are ordained), and they share the pastoral responsibilities equally. > > --clh] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Ormond email: jameso@lindir.LA.TEK.COM Tektronix, Inc. snail: PO Box 4600 Mail Stop 92-710 Beaverton, OR 97076 Phone: (503) 629-1916 (voice) Voice: "Hey, you! Yea, you, jerk!" [Since then I also heard of female Southern Baptist pastors. A lot of other Southern Baptists don't like it, but so far they can't do anything about what goes on in local churches. --clh]