st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) (12/06/90)
Frank Farkas has pointed out some verses from James which suggest that
good works are important in the life of a Christian.
He was responding to a post which re-iterated that faith is the only
determining factor in salvation.
I agree with both of the above points.
Sure, faith in Christ is what will save you. But is your own salvation the
ultimate goal of your practice of religion. Do you have faith in Christ
only because of the benefits that faith will bring to you? If so, doesn't
that make your religion a religion of self-centeredness, focusing on
what *you* do to save *your* soul.
Ditto for the rationale for good works. If you do good works to get a
temple recommend, or to get into the "third heavens" (celestial kingdom
in mormonspeak) or because you believe you will be judged by them,
then you are trying to save your own hide and are missing the whole reason
for doing good works.
The reason for good works (even faith in Christ, even baptism--everything
that we do in our Christian life) is to share the love of God with others,
and return it to Him. Good works result, not from fear or desire for
personal gain, but from the overflowing love of God as manifested in our lives.
Steve Timm
Steven Timm Physics Department Carnegie Mellon
"Shame on you, and shame on you again
for converting me into a bullet and
shooting me into men's hearts." Richard Harris c 1972farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) (12/11/90)
In article <Dec.6.03.50.55.1990.23658@athos.rutgers.edu>, st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: >Frank Farkas has pointed out some verses from James which suggest that >good works are important in the life of a Christian. > Deleted some of the text. >The reason for good works (even faith in Christ, even baptism--everything >that we do in our Christian life) is to share the love of God with others, >and return it to Him. Good works result, not from fear or desire for >personal gain, but from the overflowing love of God as manifested in our lives. > Thanks Steve, for summarizing the issues in your very well worded comments. I agree with you 100%. Anyone who believes, baptised, goes to the LDS temple, helps others, etc., without having the above described attitude and state of mind, without being filled with gratitude and thanksgiving, and doesn't glorifying God, misses the whole point. >Steve Timm Thanks again. With brotherly love, Frank
gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (12/24/90)
In article <Dec.6.03.50.55.1990.23658@athos.rutgers.edu> st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: >Frank Farkas has pointed out some verses from James which suggest that >good works are important in the life of a Christian. > >He was responding to a post which re-iterated that faith is the only >determining factor in salvation. > >I agree with both of the above points. > >Sure, faith in Christ is what will save you. But is your own salvation the >ultimate goal of your practice of religion. Do you have faith in Christ >only because of the benefits that faith will bring to you? If so, doesn't >that make your religion a religion of self-centeredness, focusing on >what *you* do to save *your* soul. Steve, I think we need to make a distinction here. No one starts off with such altruistic motives. Like babies (the Biblical analogy is so apt), we start off very self-focused. As we grow in Christ, we begin to move out from ourselves into the world about us to share that which we have found in Christ. And even at this, we tend to do good works at first because it gives us pleasure to do so, and less because we are doing right simply because it is right. The distinction that I would draw is between immature and mature faith. Immature faith centers, like a baby, on itself and the benefits that come from believing. Mature faith is one that reaches out beyond itself to a world in desparate need, seeking no personal gain or need, and ministers to that need. No Christian that I have ever known has started off with mature faith. Other than this nit, I liked what you said. Yours in Christ, Gene Gross