christian@cs.rutgers.edu (12/12/90)
[This posting is anonymous, in order to avoid personal embarrassment whose nature should be obvious from the posting. I trust people don't object to requests of this sort. I don't think anonymous postings are appropriate in most of our discussions, but when asking for advice on personal issues that could embarrass other people, I think it makes sense. I will be happy to route responses to the original sender. --clh] My situation is as follows: I am an Indian student (i.e. from India). My girlfriend is from India as well. Both of our families are Christians. Our parents are very traditional in their thinking. As you may know, India has the arranged marriage system. Our parents would like us to have this type of a marriage. Therefore, they would be VERY upset if they found out about us. Only our close friends know about us. If her parents found out, they would probably take her away from school here. They are not doing harm to us, but what they think is best for us. We both understand that. We don't want to do anything that would hurt their feelings. We both plan to tell our parents when we think it would be appropriate. We agree that we would break-up if our parents will not accept our relationship. We were trying to find some verses in the Bible that support what I'm going to call "love marriages," as opposed to arranged marriages. There are several references in the Bible of the parents finding a bride for their son, etc. We want to know about verses that indicate that there is nothing wrong with love marriages. The only one that we have found is in one of Paul's letters to the Corinthians where he basically says that, in his opinion, the church members there should remain single, but if any man was thinking "unbecomingly" towards a "virgin" he should go ahead and marry. I hope I'm not paraphrasing this verse out of context. Please help us with this task. We feel that with backing of some relevant parts of the Word, we may be able to change the minds of parents. Meanwhile, our prayers are that God will show us the right answer AND give us the strength to follow it even if it is not desirable to us.
ok@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) (12/14/90)
In article <Dec.11.22.37.52.1990.28360@athos.rutgers.edu>, christian@cs.rutgers.edu writes: > I am an Indian student (i.e. from India). My girlfriend is from India > as well. Both of our families are Christians. Our parents are very > traditional in their thinking. As you may know, India has the arranged > marriage system. Darn it, some people have all the luck. (Half (:-), only half.) I'm going to quote from "Sketches of Jewish Social Life in the days of Christ" and Edersheim, which may clarify things. The admonition to marry "only in the Lord" recalls many similar Rabbinical warnings, from which we select the most striking. Men, we are told [Yalkut on Deut 21:15] are wont to marry for one of four reasons--for passion, wealth, honour, or the glory of God. As for the first-named class of marriages, their issue must be expected to be "stubborn and rebellious" sons, as we may gather from the section referring to such following upon that in Deut 21:11. In regard to marriages for wealth, we are to learn a lesson from the sons of Eli, who sought to enrich themselves in such manner, but of whose posterity it was said (1 Sam 2:26) that they should "crouch for a piece of silver and a morsel of bread". Of marriages for the sake of connection, honour, and influence, King Jehoram offered a warning, who became King Ahab's son-in-law, because that monarch had seventy sons, whereas upon his death his widfth Athaliah "arose and destroyed all the seed royal" (2 Kings 11:1). But far otherwise is it in case of marriage "in the name of heaven". The issue of such will be children who "preserve Israel". In fact, the Rabbinical references to marrying "in the name of heaven", or "for the name of God"--in God and for God--are so frequent that --> the expressions used by St Paul must have come familiarly to him. Again, much that is said in 1 Cor 7 about the married estate finds striking parallels in Talmudical writings. The marriage of Jacob and Rachel seems to have been a love match. The marriage of Joseph _may_ have been, there's an extra-biblical version of the story of "Joseph and Asenath" which I find beautiful, and used to be well known in Europe up to the time of Milton, I think. There is, of course, Deuteronomy 21:11 If you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. ... After she has ... mourned her father and mother ... This is clearly not an arranged marriage, the woman's parents being dead or inaccessible. I don't recall ever hearing of anything in the Bible that _requires_ arranged marriages or _forbids_ "love" marriages. -- The Marxists have merely _interpreted_ Marxism in various ways; the point, however, is to _change_ it. -- R. Hochhuth.
milind@nstar.rn.com (milind limaye) (12/14/90)
Ohboy. This is a tough one, especially considering that the old Jewish (old testament) accepted arranged marriages too. You might want to try this one: that a christian shouldn't engage in behavior that causes grief to another Christian. It's linked with some sort of dietary deal in Paul somewhere, but you might want to link it to following tradition and all in marriages. Nevertheless, you two will have a much easier time of it than I will. I'm in your situation, but my folks aren't Christians. And when and if I decide to marry the girl of MY choice (not theirs) in a Christian/western ceremony, I will undoubtedly be kicked out of the house and disowned. See? Things could be worse.
pcjg7045@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter Chuzhen Jin) (12/14/90)
Dear anonymous friend, I read about your predicament recently. I also am from an Indian Christian family also. Being in sort of the a similar situation, I had many talks with my parents about the subject. After having talked to them and others and having looked at the scriptures, I don't think this is a Biblical issue at all. Rather I think in the Indian (and other) context the question is more of a social or cultural question, as the Bible has instances of both kinds or marriages. If you would like to talk about my personal experiences either e-mail me or give me a call. Best Wishes, Pramod John Gaseous Electronics Laboratory University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign e-mail: Pramod@uiuc.edu Phone: (217) 352-7268 Office: (217) 333-2483
marcc@ixhawk.att.com (Marc A Cartwright) (12/14/90)
Three scriptures/examples come to my mind concerning choosing your spouse.
1. After seeing Rachel, Jacob "fell in love" with her and asked
her father for her.
2. In Prov 18:22
"Whosoever finds a wife, finds a good thing and obtains
favor with the Lord".
3. In the verse following the scripture you quoted in 1 Cor. 7:38,
it states that w widow is "at liberty to marry whomsever she
will; only in the Lord".
Marc Cbilly@tcom.stc.co.uk (Billy Khan) (12/14/90)
Hello, I can't say that I agree with arranged marriages, but I do understand that your respective parents want the best for you. All parents do, its all part of love. A friend of mine had a sort of similiar problem to you a little while ago. We prayed about it a lot and didn't seem to get a real convinving answer until one day when a few verses from Matthew came up in conversation. I can't remember the exact verse...if you are interested I will find it for you...write back and tell me. The main theme was this. '...Put your trust completely in the lord.' Now i know this might sound like old hat to a lot of people. But what we got out of it at the time was this. If we trust in God completely (IE 100% and i mean 100%!) Then the lord promises to deal with our problems in the best way. Its stated quite clearly in that passage how we are supposed to be....Not worrying about what we will eat, or wear, or be doing tomorrow and i can't see why that doesn't cover the area of personal relationships. So my advice is to just keep on persevering in prayer and trust that God will sort out the problem...believe me...he will! He did promise too after all! These verses won't really help you explain things to your parents..but they might help you. Don't ask the lord to give a nice verse...ask him to deal with the whole thing! Love and Prayers, Drew.
eaton@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com ( 23448, EATON, ROBERT) (12/14/90)
>My situation is as follows: >I am an Indian student (i.e. from India). namaste. >My girlfriend is from India >as well. Both of our families are Christians. Are you from Kerala? Just curious. >Our parents are very >traditional in their thinking. I went to India in 1987 on a short term summer missions with IVCF. My brother-in-law (although he wasn't then) was the directory on the American side. The director on the Indian side (John Christian) knew my brother-in- law very well, as he studied in India for a few years prior to our trip. John also know this lovely Indian girl. John know that they would be a good match since they both love the Lord supremely and are both interested in missions esp. in India. While Bill and I were there in 1987, we met Alice. During this time Bill prayed about it and believed that it was God's will that they be married. So he communicated this to her. She had similar leadings. So they informally decided to pursue getting married to one another. When Alice told her sister about this, her sister blew-up (I should mention that Alice's widower father is a retired pastor from the Mar Thoma Church); not only wasn't he a Mar Thomite, but he was a foreigner as well. Then she approached her father. He disallowed them to communicate. But they continued to pray for God will to be done. To make a long and very hard story short, after three years Bill and Alice were just married this last Oct. 20th. During the intervening time they were only able to communicate for about the last few months. I will discuss with them this evening if they had ever found any scriptural support for what they did, but for now I would just say that the Lord is still in the business of opening doors that no man can close based upon our prayers in accordance with His will. My wife and I will agree with you in prayer concerning this. I know that you wanted this to be anonymous, but I would love to talk with you about India, etc. - if you are interested. Bob Prabhu rajy hai! +-----------------------------+ ___ | rdeaton@ab.com | \ / / \ | Bob Eaton | \___/ \ | Control Systems Engineering |_______________________ __\_____________________ | Allen-Bradley Co. | | | | ____| | | | 747 Alpha Dr. | ____ | | ____ | | ___| ____| | Highland Hts., OH 44143 | / \ \| | / \ \| |____ / ( | | (216) 646-3478 (work) | \__\_/| | \__\_/| __ | | | | (216) 353-0280 (home) | | | | \_\__| \___/ | +-----------------------------+ | | | \ |
jclark%sdcc6@ucsd.edu (John Clark) (01/03/91)
In article <Dec.14.04.08.25.1990.27956@athos.rutgers.edu> marcc@ixhawk.att.com (Marc A Cartwright) writes:
+Three scriptures/examples come to my mind concerning choosing your spouse.
+
+ 1. After seeing Rachel, Jacob "fell in love" with her and asked
+ her father for her.
Yes, and after marrying her sister Leah, Jacob then married Rachel.
Thus satisfying his 'love' needs and 'duty' needs. How many
Christians allow such satisfaction today?
--
John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu