davidh@tektronix.tek.com (David L Hatcher) (01/09/91)
Reincarnation to me is of little importance. What happens to me, beyond this life, is for God to decide. Because of that, I'm not addressing the reincarnation aspect that Gene has spent so much time on. But he did make a statement that I quite often hear that did purk into responding to his post. In article <Jan.3.04.32.58.1991.14607@athos.rutgers.edu> gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: >The other problem that I have is that reincarnation is part a parcel to >much of the Gnostic and Eastern mystical philosophies. As such, the >view of God is one that makes God impersonal. It does away with the >Christian view of a personal, Creator God that we can approach and know >here and now. Personally, I feel that this is a very wrong headed view that is quite often espoused. Now it could be that I am not understanding what Gene meant by his use of the terms "Gnostic and Eastern mystical philosophies". But, I am assuming that I do know of the traditions that Gene is pointing towards. If it appears that I do not, perhaps he could clearify. At any rate, with the assumption that I am on the same track as Gene, I want to point out that IF one goes in and *experiences* what is experienced by those who know and live with in God through gnossis OR the Eastern mystical traditions that they do in fact have a very close, personal relationship with the Divine. Often, at least in my experiences, that relationship is much, much deeper with the Beloved Creating God than what most, not all mind you, Christians here in the west know and experience. > Further, these beliefs postulate that the mystery of >man's ultimate identity is finally revealed as his divinity within. Is it not "within" that one comes to actually experience "It is not I who lives with in me, but Christ"? And, is this not the essence of the Christian mystical experience as they *experience* their ultimate identity as revealed through the *experience* of divinity "within"? I think that this inner knowledge, as experienced, is much closer to what the Gnostic and Eastern Mystical traditions are pointing towards when they talk about ones ultimate identity as being revealed as one *experiences* the Divinity within. Experience is an important word here because the "spiritual" is known by inner experience just as to know what "love" is, one has to experience it to know it. So because it appears to me that Gene is looking at the outer "beliefs" for substance that he is missing the inner light that is glowing with in the hearts and souls of those whom he critiqued. >Since all things are made of God (not by God), man in his deepest self >is none other than God. Not quite right. To be more correct, man in his deepest self, or "root of being" is none other than an aspect of the *manifestation* of God. (not the whole of God directly) But than, so is all of of Creation. It is through God's Creation that He manifests Himself. Man is a part of that Creation. Even the Christian Saints and Mystics point towards their seeing God manifested through and with in the very foundations of life it Self. > But without "enlightenment," he does not know >this (see my previous comments on reincarnation) and, in effect, lives >as an amnesiac. The purpose of man is to realize that he is God, thus >ending the "illusion" of separation. Perhaps this might make more sense to the "western" mind if enlightenment were replaced with "awakening". Thus, we awaken to the Divine that is with in all of us. Does not God reach out to everything and everyone? With in that reaching out, (omnipresence) is not His Grace touching absolutely everything? And is not His presence open to all to live with in and experience? To me, it is an illusion to think that we can and do live separated from God. Just as it is an illusion to think that we can live separated from life it self. And there are sure a lot of folks who are not very aware of the depth of blessings that IS life just as there are a lot of folks who think God is an illusion. To live with in the awareness of the presence of God is an awakening process. It takes time to really learn to completely open our soul to the awareness of God. David Hatcher