[soc.religion.christian] Some thoughts on Prayer and Paradoxes

demitrio@husc9.harvard.edu (suzanne demitrio) (01/22/91)

A question that I have been thinking about:  If God exists outside time and 
doesn't have to act chronologically, can we pray for people who lived in 
the past?  What does it mean to do so?  Although divine grace sometimes 
manifestly affects history (i.e. the conversion of the Emperor 
Constantine), there's no reason that I can see why God can't act in ways 
that are historically indifferent, or at least imperceptible to anyone other 
than the person he's acting on.  I think that it's possible, say, to pray that 
Adolph Hitler be given the grace to realize and repent his sins on his 
deathbed without one's having to worry about time paradoxes.  Even if 
such an event would subtly affect history (and thus affect whether I exist 
and whether I am praying for Hitler), God, standing outside the time-
continuum, can simultaneously "see" me choosing to pray and Hitler 
receiving grace.  Anyhow, for reasons to be explained below, I don't think 
that God actually considers prayers as requests, but rather that I should 
pray for Hitler's salvation because it's good and right for *me* to do so.  
As you can see, this idea is still somewhat confuddled:  Comments?

Some ideas on prayer:  If God is imminent, omniscient, and 
omnibenevolent, then He knows our needs, and plans what's best for us, 
without the aid of information or persuasion received through prayer.  It 
seems contradictory to me to believe that by praying we can or should 
influence God's actions, since by definition He is already doing what is 
best.  But I believe that prayer is a good thing, and that prayers are 
answered.  I think that this is because the business of prayer is more a 
matter of getting *oneself* to desire and understand that best thing which 
God would have done anyway.  In other words, all of prayer is essentially 
saying, as sincerely as possible, "Thy will be done."  "Hearing" an answer 
to prayer is thus a vindication that one prayed for the right thing, or 
asked the right question.  I don't think one can morally pray for specific 
outcomes to events (i.e. "Please keep Jack alive," "Please keep the 
Visigoths from invading.").  For one thing, praying for such things, and 
then seeing one's prayers go unanswered, might lead one to the 
preposterous conclusion that God was unjust.

So what can/should one properly pray for?  I have a few ideas on this, 
which fit neatly into a close reading of the Lord's Prayer (I actually came 
up with the ideas first and just spontaneously realized that they 
essentially paraphrase the Our Father -- isn't it lovely how reason 
reinforces faith?).  Forgive my pretensiousness here -- I DON'T mean 
what follows as anything like a definitive reading   -- just as a personal 
meditation. [Also please forgive my inconsistent capitalization of 
pronouns relating to God: I study medieval Church history, and the 
capitalization centers in my brain have gotten so addled by the lack of a 
coherent policy among the editors and translators of the stuff I read that 
whether I type "He" or "he" has become largely a matter of chance.  When 
conscious of it, I use "He".]

> Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name

prayer for the greater glory of God:  praising God as a way of confessing 
that we choose Him and put Him above everything else (of course, He 
doesn't *need* our praise; we, if honest, need to praise Him).

> Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

prayer as acceptance of God's will:  asking Him to do what He would have 
done anyway, so that we choose to obey Him without the limitation of 
asking what obedience entails, or of qualifying it through specific 
requests.

> Give us this day our daily bread,

prayer as the realization that everything we have comes from God, and 
that we live, even on a simple, physical level, entirely through His grace.

> And forgive us our trespasses,

prayer as contrition for sin

> As we forgive those who trespass against us.

praying for others as a manifestation of our forgiveness of, and goodwill 
toward, other people (???).  Are we to identify with others by desiring 
their salvation?  This is the only line in the prayer where the subject of 
the verb is not God.  I'm not sure what to do with it.

> And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

prayer for help in avoiding sin.  I'd include praying for wisdom or self-
knowledge (so as to act morally) under this line too, but that may be 
stretching things a bit.


What else is there?

Comments?


                                  --- Suzanne Demitrio

(I'm a medievalist and a practicing Roman Catholic, recently returned 
>From agnostic apostasy -- which is to say that I'm still figuring things 
out.)

[I think the most persuasive answer to the question of why God should
need our prayers in order to do something is this: Of course he does
not.  Rather prayer is a gift to us.  It is his way of allowing us to
participate in his actions.  Though of course I also agree with your
comments about the importance of its effects on us.  --clh]