math1h3@jetson.uh.edu (01/25/91)
In article <Jan.23.03.13.23.1991.1591@athos.rutgers.edu>, dragon!cms@gatech.edu writes: > When we were discussing the Old Testament, I said, Jesus told us to > love the God of the Old Testament, the One who told us to go into > battle, to kill the Midianites, for example, men, women, and children. > Now, his response was: God didn't really tell them to kill the > Midianites, men, women, and children, smashing little babies heads > against walls, etc....God didn't tell them to do that, that isn't what > God is all about. I said, the Bible says, God told them to go out and > kill the Midianites. He responded, No, God didn't tell them that; > these people were using God to justify their actions. They said, "God > told me to do this," even though God really didn't; they were just > saying God told them to kill people to justify their actions. OK, this is a response on the question of whether God commanded the Israelites to exterminate the Midianites or the various tribes living in the promised land. There is a point to making a distinction between what God did and said and what Moses did and said. This point is made most clearly when we see that Moses was not permitted to enter the promised land, 'because .. you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites." Deut. 32:51. If you check out the story, the only thing Moses did wrong was to hit the rock with a stick rather than speak to it, as the LORD had commanded him. However, I think this minister of yours is going too far. He refuses to believe that unbelievers are objects of God's wrath, Eph 2:3; consequently he cannot believe that God would put them under the ban. So, here are a few more passages to consider on this topic: Ex. 23:23,24 "My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, *and I will wipe them out*. Do not bow down before their godw or worship them or follow their practices..." Ex 23:31-33 "I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines and from the desert to the River. I will hand over to you the people who live in the land and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. *Do not let them live in your land*, or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you." Similarly Ex 34:11-14. Deut 20:10-18 is interesting. In the first part, Moses says that in general, "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace... If they refuse to make peace...When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves... " In the second part, however, he says : "However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving to you as an inheritance, do not leave anything alive that breathes. Completely destriy them -- the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD you God has commanded you. Otherwise they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshipping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God." Now, I don't see Midian falling under this class. However neither do I see support for the notion that our loving God would not exterminate women and children. Again, there is the problem that this is Moses speaking, and not Moses quoting the LORD. Nevertheless we have no scriptural evidence that Moses was teaching error here, and the Exodus passages give pretty firm foundation for what he was saying. Looking at Numbers 31, I see that the women were not automatically under the ban, but were executed because they "were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people." We might note that the LORD praised Phinehas, son of Eleazar, for driving his spear through an Israelite man and a Midianite woman, apparently right in the middle of their fornication. On Phinehas was bestowed a special covenant that he and his descendants would have a lasting priesthood. (Numbers 25:6-13) Considering this last piece of information I would have to conclude that Moses was, at worst, applying what had been revealed by the LORD in a consistent manner. The LORD had ordered him to take vengeance on Midian, (Numbers 25:16, 31:1,2), and Moses punished the women, because they took and active, and particularly sinful, part in opposing Israel. Note that the woman Cozbi did not act alone. Midian was in an alliance with Moab against Israel -- Numbers 22:4,7. David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran. My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston.