ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) (01/15/91)
Why do the nations rage? Psalm 2.1. The answer is supplied at once. It is because "the rulers take counsel together against the Lord, and against His annointed". However violent the hostility between them, world governments are at heart united on one thing: they are against the reign of Christ. We look upon the nations as some of them bad, some good; but Scripture points us to the "prince of this world" behind them all. Prompted by him, earth's rulers today seek only absolute freedom from sanctions imposed by the laws of Christ. They want no more love, no more humility, no more truth. "Let us break their bands asunder," they cry, "and cast away their cords from us." At this point alone in all Scripture is God said to laugh. His King is already on His holy hill! The early Church was very much aware of Christ's dominion. More than ever today do we need to remember it. Soon, maybe in our lifetime, He will shepherd the nations with a rod of iron. Our task is to plead with men to "be wise;" to "put their trust in Him." ----- Robert W. Johnson Computer center, The University of Turku, Turku Finland robert@kontu.utu.fi (InterNet) robert@firien.bitnet (BITNET) The preceeding is my opinion and may not express the opinion of my employer and furthermore has nothing to do with my employment.
lindborg@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Lindborg) (01/21/91)
In article <Jan.15.04.54.28.1991.12993@athos.rutgers.edu> ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) writes: >Why do the nations rage? Psalm 2.1. > >The answer is supplied at once. It is because "the rulers take counsel >together against the Lord, and against His annointed". However violent the >hostility between them, world governments are at heart united on one thing: >they are against the reign of Christ. We look upon the nations as some of >them bad, some good; but Scripture points us to the "prince of this world" >behind them all. Prompted by him, earth's rulers today seek only absolute >freedom from sanctions imposed by the laws of Christ. They want no more love, >no more humility, no more truth. "Let us break their bands asunder," they cry, >"and cast away their cords from us." here we see the basic case of "why nations rage." This type of intolerant nonsense it exactly what causes unrest and strife in the world. I would like to point out just how incredibly violent and opressive the Christian Church has been thoughout its history (from the time of Constantine, through the middle ages and up to the Religious Wars). We see a group of people, who think like you do, and view those around them as being less than 'holy' and worthy, apparently, of death. I contest that, if there were no religion at all, the prospects of peace would be much more likely... and I'm not alone. I suggest reading Bertrand Russels "Why I'm Not a Christian" and selsections from "An Inquiery into Truth and Meaning." for a clearer explanation. >At this point alone in all Scripture is God said to laugh. His King is >already on His holy hill! The early Church was very much aware of Christ's >dominion. More than ever today do we need to remember it. Soon, maybe in >our lifetime, He will shepherd the nations with a rod of iron. Our task is >to plead with men to "be wise;" to "put their trust in Him." Or soon people like you will cause enough unrest to get us all killed. >Robert W. Johnson "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." Robert Heinline Jeff Lindborg "Agnostic with an attitude."
bob@morningstar.com (Bob Sutterfield) (01/24/91)
A missionary friend sent these thoughts on Friday, 11 January: With the current situation in the Middle East, many of us are praying, as perhaps, never before for that area of the world. We're praying for peace (or at least the prevention of war), for leaders (especially George Bush and Saddam Hussein), and for the safety and well-being of soldiers and armies deployed in the Arabian desert. But are we praying for God's agenda? I pose you a question to consider prayerfully before the Lord: in your prayers for the Middle East, are you praying as a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, or as a citizen of the United States of America (or the United Kingdom or Canada, or Australia, New Zealand, etc.)? Consider Joshua 6:13,14: (New International Version) "Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, 'Are you for us or for our enemies?' 'Neither,' he replied, 'but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.' then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, 'What message does my Lord have for his servant?'" Note the implied question in the response to Joshua's question: "Whose side are YOU on?" Do we really believe God is on our side, or are we trying to make sure we're on his side? As terrible as war is, on the scale of eternity, is war really the worst thing that could happen? Consider the following: as a result of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, there has been a dramatic increase in the openness to the Gospel by Afghans. Brother Andrew's organization also reports of Muslim Afghans submitting their lives to Christ as a result of the witness of _Christian soldiers in the Red Army!_ In a similar manner, there have been more conversions of Muslims in Iran in the 10 years since the Islamic revolution there, than the previous century before! Therefore, in your praying, add these requests to bring before God: 1) That God will use these current events as a means of breaking down the walls that prevent the peoples of Iraq and Kuwait from hearing, understanding, and believing the Gospel. Pray for the penetration of Iraq and Kuwait. 2) For the national and expatriate believers who are still in both Kuwait and Iraq. Pray for strength and boldness to proclaim the Gospel as never before in these lands. 3) For Christian soldiers in the foreign armies, that they be able to share their faith, as did the Soviets in Afghanistan, but that God will use this time as a "short-term missions exposure trip", mobilizing hundreds of new missionaries to the Muslim world. (Remember that after World War II, there was a large quantity of new missionaries sent out: many of them who had served as soldiers, returning as missionaries. For example, Mission Aviation Fellowship began as a group of former military pilots who had served in the South Pacific.)
lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (logan shaw) (01/24/91)
In article <Jan.20.14.43.58.1991.15008@athos.rutgers.edu> lindborg@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Lindborg) writes: >In article <Jan.15.04.54.28.1991.12993@athos.rutgers.edu> ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) writes: >>Why do the nations rage? Psalm 2.1. [ comments on text of Psalm 2 deleted ] >here we see the basic case of "why nations rage." This type of intolerant >nonsense it exactly what causes unrest and strife in the world. The main problem that I have with your statement is your implication that an explanation of why 'the nations rage' is linked with intolerance. I'm a Christian. I believe in what it says in Psalm 2. Yet, if I'm intolerant, why am I listening to a Pink Floyd CD while I write this? > I would >like to point out just how incredibly violent and opressive the Christian >Church has been thoughout its history (from the time of Constantine, through >the middle ages and up to the Religious Wars). We see a group of people, who >think like you do, and view those around them as being less than 'holy' and >worthy, apparently, of death. The problem I have with this argument is that it assumes that the actions of a group of people that called themselves a church really represents what Christianity is about. First, what the Bible actually says about how you should treat others: (Matthew 5:43-44) You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy,' but I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you. (Luke 6:31-32,37) And just as you want people to treat you, treat them in the same way. And if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them...And do not judge and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. And, the Bible explaining that some people seem to follow God but do not: (Matthew 15:3,7-9) And He answered and said to them, "And why do you yourselves [ the Pharisees -- the church institution of the time ] transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? ... You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'" What I'm saying is that the church was not following God when they did what they did. They were using it as an excuse to do something _they_ wanted to do. > I contest that, if there were no religion at all, the prospects of peace >would be much more likely... and I'm not alone. I suggest reading Bertrand >Russels "Why I'm Not a Christian" and selsections from "An Inquiery into Truth >and Meaning." for a clearer explanation. I submit that if all those who spoke as if they were Christians really acted like Christians, people would be beating down the doors to get in to churches. Well, it's late and this has gotten long, so I'm gonna get going. Hope this makes some sense to ya... >"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." > Robert Heinline > >Jeff Lindborg >"Agnostic with an attitude." -- =----------------Logan-Shaw---(lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)----------------= "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and he shall direct thy paths" - Proverbs 3:5-6 [This is a common answer, and probably right as far as it goes. But I think in all honesty there is some evidence that Christianity itself -- at least in the form it is normally taught -- does tend to lead to intolerance. Indeed I think many Christians find it hard to come up with a Christian justification for tolerance. If you believe that non-Christians are going to hell, you *shouldn't* tolerate non-Christian beliefs. It's not clear to me that there is any Christian justification for trying to build a neutral, pluralistic society other than the practical issue that all attempts to mandate a "Christian" nation seem to lead to disaster -- such disaster that Chritians find themselves fleeing to Moslem countries to avoid persecution by other Christians (as did happen in Europe at times). This does not mean that Christianity needs to lead persecution, murder, war, etc. These things can be shown to be wrong on Biblical grounds. But I'd be interested to see a Christian definition of and justification for tolerance in a wider sense. --clh]
bob@morningstar.com (Bob Sutterfield) (01/29/91)
In article <Jan.27.02.22.53.1991.18602@athos.rutgers.edu> ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) writes:
In S.A., you can be imprisoned simply for possessing a Bible.
I'm not sure of the accuracy of this, at least in regard to foreign
nationals. Members of the US and other armed services have been
gratefully receiving as many Bibles as can be sent to them.
If you'd like to help an organization that's involved in the business
of providing Bibles where they "aren't supposed to be", please call
Bible Literature International at +1 614 267 3116. They also work in
more conventional mission and evangelism areas.