[soc.religion.christian] Does JUSTIFICATION = SALVATION ?

davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (02/08/91)

In reading my Bible I see quite a few glimpses into what it takes to be
saved - the rich young ruler, the woman at the well, believe in Jesus,
etc.  But nothing comes to mind that would say that
Justification == Salvation.  It is exhilerating to know that our sins
are forgiven.  But does this wonderful pardon save us?  Do you know of
any texts that would equate Justification with Salvation?

What I am wondering is this.  Perhaps the arguments that apply to
"once saved always saved" apply to Justification.  But if Justification
does not necessarily == Salvation then perhaps it is not fair to say that
being Justified == Salvation == 'once saved always saved' ?

Thanks,

Dave

st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) (02/12/91)

I think it's quite possible that justification is equivalent to salvation.
The story of the thief on the cross receiving assurance of pardon and 
salvation from sin bears this out well.

I think too often when discussing the Christian life after the initial 
justification, we cast it in terms of what one *has* to do after
justification to be saved, or how one can lose ones salvation.
The point is that if every action we make in the Christian life is 
geared towards attaining our own salvation, then we are Christians
for the wrong reason.  

Some people believe they have to do good works to be saved and spend
their whole life trying to do enough good works.  Others think all you 
have to do is believe and spend their whole life trying to believe.
I think what God wants us to do is realize, "Hey, you're saved already!"
"Believe it, it's yours.  *Now* go out and help others who need it rather
than spending your whole life trying to save your own hide."

The issue is not how the gift of salvation is gained or lost, it's
what you do with it after you get it.

The beauty of God is that he's willing to work with all these people who 
seek Him for selfish motivations, and transform our motivations.

Steve Timm

Steven Timm  Physics Department  Carnegie Mellon
"Shame on you, and shame on you again
    for converting me into a bullet and
         shooting me into men's hearts."    Richard Harris  c 1972

kutz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth J. Kutz) (02/14/91)

In article <Feb.8.02.44.47.1991.15413@athos.rutgers.edu>, davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) writes:

> What I am wondering is this.  Perhaps the arguments that apply to
> "once saved always saved" apply to Justification.  But if Justification
> does not necessarily == Salvation then perhaps it is not fair to say that
> being Justified == Salvation == 'once saved always saved' ?

[To those who have been in discussions concerning "faith vs. works" which
I fueled, I apologize for not responding but I have been on a happy leave
of absence :-) ]

Hi Dave!  I honestly believe Romans Chapter 8 answers this question.
I truly believe that it was Paul's intent to teach the eternal
security of the believer.  By that I mean that I don't think that
eternal security is a by-product of Chapter 8 but a *theme*.

It is salvation in view:

ROM 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
ROM 8:15  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
ROM 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And assurance of that eternal salvation the thrust:

ROM 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [Note the word "all"]

But here is the main passage I think answers the question you posed:

ROM 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
ROM 8:30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Notice God is the doer in these passages and all of these verbs are in
the past tense.  The verbs follow in this order:

predestinated --> called --> justified --> glorified

As we travel from one verb to the next, this passage makes it clear that
God doesn't lose any of His children along the way.  Read Romans 8:30 
again to see what I mean.  What shall we conclude then?  Well, if ALL
those he justified, he also glorified, what does it mean to be glorified?
Is this salvation?  I think so.  Paul just finished saying:

ROM 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also GLORIFIED together.

And of course Paul drives home his theme of the eternal security of
the Christian with his crescendo...

ROM 8:31  What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
ROM 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
ROM 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
ROM 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I've heard it said that the list doesn't include "yourself" therefore
you can separate yourself from the love of God.  I don't believe that
for two reasons.  

(1) The list includes "nor any other creature" of which I am one
(2) Romans 8:30, I Thess 5:23-24, Jude 24, Eph 1:13-14, Col 1:6,
    2Cor 1:21-22, John 5:24, Jude 1, Heb 12:14, Eph 4:30, 1Pet 1:3-5

(I'm not big on proof texting without comment but these references were
 included for completeness.  Forgive me :-)

God bless you brother,


-- 
  Kenneth J. Kutz		  Internet 	kutz@andy.bgsu.edu         
  Systems Programmer		  BITNET   	KUTZ@ANDY
  University Computer Services    UUCP     	...!osu-cis!bgsuvax!kutz   
  Bowling Green State Univ.       US Mail   238 Math Science, BG OH 43403