gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (08/06/90)
In late 1973, I got involved with a street ministry. I was licensed to preach and teach. But this is not about me. It is about something that happened back then that I want to share. My co-minister and I started a small Bible study and prayer meeting in his in-laws' house. They had the room and were agreeable. We invited the staff and some of the kids that wanted to learn more about the Bible and Jesus Christ. We started off with about 6 people or so. Within a month we had some 30 people attending. They came from almost every denomination. The group finally grew to the point that we had to start more sessions on different nights of the week. I found it interesting that the denominational arguments that often crop up when Christians of different denominations get together did not come up during these sessions. We drew together around Christ. I don't think that people came because my co-minister and I are such great teachers. I have thought about this for many years now. I think that what drew folks together was Christ. Consider some of the denominations represented: Southern Baptists, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists, Church of Christ, Nazarenes, Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, and many more. Can you imagine such folks coming together without at least once arguing over some point of doctrine. Frankly, had I not seen it with my own eyes I would not have believed it possible. For a number of reasons, this ended and folks went as the Lord lead them. Every now and then I bump into one of those folks who attended, and we wonder about that period of time. We long for a return of that time. My question to those of you reading this is why don't we see more of this? Grace and Peace, Gene Gross [Particularly in this group, eh? I am frankly upset that our discussions all turn into the issues that separate various denominations. I don't object to this in principle. I've learned a lot about Catholics, LDS, etc. But I'd like to see room for other things. However so far the concensus seems to be that I should not attempt to guide things away from those discussions. --clh]
sre@cs.rochester.edu (Sherry Ellington) (08/08/90)
In article <Aug.5.22.01.02.1990.18583@athos.rutgers.edu> gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: >lot about Catholics, LDS, etc. But I'd like to see room for other >things. However so far the concensus seems to be that I should not >attempt to guide things away from those discussions. --clh] I've been a Christian for only a short time in comparison to many others on the net. (3 years) I love your story, Gene, and I think it would be well for us all to take note of it here. I know as a new Christian I am eager to learn all I can about the bible, Christ, and how it all relates to today. Many of us struggle and wrestle with our own personal problems and Growing sprititually. (We never have it made and none of us are perfect) I can see a lot of issues that could be discussed here that would help us all towards that effort and, at the same time, display what Christ wanted for us. To be united in his love and purpose. Sherry Ellington
gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (08/08/90)
It was bound to happen sooner or later--I'd meet myself coming and going. ;-) And here I am, responding to one of my own posts. Talk about self-referential acts. Actually, I wanted to respond to OFM. He said: > [Particularly in this group, eh? I am frankly upset that our > discussions all turn into the issues that separate various > denominations. I don't object to this in principle. I've learned a > lot about Catholics, LDS, etc. But I'd like to see room for other > things. However so far the concensus seems to be that I should not > attempt to guide things away from those discussions. --clh] CLH: Brother, I really wasn't trying to lower the boom on anyone in particular. It is often hard to give a complete picture of one's faith and beliefs via the net. I suffer, as do many, from work-imposed time constraints. Also, I am of the belief that I owe my employer the same level of effort that I'd give to the Lord, for He is my real employer and not DG. However, if the Lord permits, I'd like to go a little further herein. I'm not all that fond of the debates and discussions over theology and doctrine. The thing that burdens my soul and heart is the lost. Our Lord's command at Matthew 28:19, 20, rings loudly in my ears all the time. And I have to admit that it bothers me that we, the Body of Christ, His Bride, spend so much effort and energy in the debating and discussing of theology and doctrine and not in the doing of the command. It is my belief that there is no other way to God but Jesus Christ. After all, Jesus did say that He was the only way, and I believe Him. Given that, it seems most imperative that the Gospel is preached and taught throughout the world. But it is more than preaching and teaching. It is also feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, caring for the sick and infirm, visiting the imprisoned, etc. For me, these are then the things of faith in action. I have my differences with others over interpretation and doctrine. Some of these are probably due to denominational differences. While I'm not crazy about denominations, I praise God for them because through them people have found Christ as Lord and Saviour. I've heard some say that the worst thing that ever happened to the Faith was denominations. Maybe, but for me the worst thing that ever happened to the Faith was the development and rise of the professional clergy class. This has taken the heat off the "pew warmers." It has given folks the chance to say, "Let the pastor/priest do that. After all that is what we pay them for." It enables folks to forget that we are all called as a nation of priests, holy unto God. The command in Matthew was not to a professional clergy class; it was to all followers of the way. The experience I wrote about came not because of a professional clergy class. It came because followers, Christians, became obedient to the Word of the living God. They met the requirements set forth by God in 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15. We determined to know nothing among us but Christ and Him crucified. It is most amazing what happens when Christians come to the foot of the Cross and dwell there a while. We determined to search the text of Scriptures (OT and NT) to determine what was God's will for His people. It is even more amazing what happens when Christians come to sit at the feet of the Master in meekness and humility to learn of and from Him. And we determined to pray for one another and all the saints as the Scripture tells us to pray. It is astonishing what happens when we come boldly before the Throne and place ourselves at the base of the Mercy Seat of Christ. Revival is a poor word for what happens. This is what I still yearn for. I yearn for a fellowship of believers drawn together not by man's doing into a denomination or group. But a fellowship of believers drawn together by the LORD God Almighty. Therein is where the Spirit moves in ways that we sometimes only read about. I believe that such fellowships exist today. They come about when God's children become obedient to the Word and seek His face. When the King's children determine to do as He has commanded us to do, we find ourselves drawn together by His Spirit for it is the Spirit which binds us and unites us and not a denomination or similar human agency. So, while I cannot, and would not even if I could, impose anything on anybody, I would remind all that we are called to something more excellent. The debating and discussions are sometimes informative and "fun," but there is a much more serious side to our Faith. For His glory and honor, Gene Gross
barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) (08/12/90)
In article <Aug.8.03.26.04.1990.12748@athos.rutgers.edu>, gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: > > The experience I wrote about came not because of a professional clergy > class. It came because followers, Christians, became obedient to the > Word of the living God. They met the requirements set forth by God in > 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15. We determined to know nothing among us but Christ > and Him crucified. It is most amazing what happens when Christians come > to the foot of the Cross and dwell there a while. We determined to > search the text of Scriptures (OT and NT) to determine what was God's > will for His people. It is even more amazing what happens when > Christians come to sit at the feet of the Master in meekness and > humility to learn of and from Him. And we determined to pray for one > another and all the saints as the Scripture tells us to pray. It is > astonishing what happens when we come boldly before the Throne and place > ourselves at the base of the Mercy Seat of Christ. Revival is a poor word > for what happens. > This is exactly how my experience in the Lord developed, a home group that met to search the scriptures, pray, laugh, and experience the miraculous by the power of the HS. Our group went a step further by reaching into the area of spirit oppression on believers. Persistant problems, or thoughts in a believer that were not effectivly dealt with through prayer, counseling, or whatever. We began to look into the possible activity of these spirits that other fellowships were engaged in with possitive results in cleansing a believer of the oppression. Some very interesting results were achieved almost immediately. My pastor who BTW, was a presbyterian pastor for 17 years prior to forming this group commented, "If I had only known this power when I was a lay pastor in the church"! How often parisheners came to him with their persistant problems, all he could offer them was the standard answer which he was taught. Seek out counseling, prayer. Not that these cannot help, but when they are not enough, then what? All he could do was shake his head in powerless acceptance of the problem. Take Care, Barry
geoff@uunet.uu.net (Geoff Allen) (08/16/90)
gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes about an interdenominational experience with love and fellowship and asks: >My question to those of you reading this is why don't we see more of >this? I would say it has a lot to do with the Holy Spirit (or rather lack of the Holy Spirit). In our flesh, it's easy for us to get all excited about whether people should be baptized by immersion or sprinkling. If we're submitting to the Spirit (admittidely not an easy thing to do, but very important), we'll be focused on the essentials -- who Jesus is, what He did (and is doing) for us, etc. I keep various signatures around and use what's appropriate, depending on the group and the message. I often change these, but the one for soc.religion.christian has not been changed. I think the message is too important. Here's my signature: Geoff Allen \ Since we live by the Spirit, uunet!pmafire!geoff \ let us keep in step with the Spirit. bigtex!pmafire!geoff \ -- Gal. 5:25 (NIV) That verse pretty much says it all. Geoff
gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (02/18/91)
The following poem is one that was a comfort to me when I was going
through some tough times. I came across it the other night while
looking for something.
He Maketh No Mistake
My Father's way may twist and turn,
My heart may throb and ache,
But in my soul I'm glad I know
He maketh no mistake.
My cherished plans may go astray,
My hopes may fade away,
But still I'll trust my Lord to lead,
For He doth know the way.
Tho' night be dark and it may seem
That day will never break,
I'll pin my faith, my all, in Him;
He maketh no mistake.
There's so much now I cannot see,
My eyesight's far too dim,
But come what may, I'll simply trust
And leave it all to Him.
For by and by the mist will lift
And plain it all will make
Through all the way, tho' dark to me
He made not one mistake.
A. M. Overton