arm@neon.stanford.edu (Alexander d Macalalad) (03/14/91)
In article <Mar.12.04.49.42.1991.1962@athos.rutgers.edu> brendan@cs.uq.oz.au (Brendan Mahony) writes: >In <Mar.11.02.37.20.1991.5423@athos.rutgers.edu> arm@neon.stanford.edu (Alexander d Macalalad) writes: >>1) Unwanted pregnancies and AIDS do occur within the boundaries of marriage. >>2) Unwanted pregnancies and AIDS can effectively be avoided even outside the >>boundaries of marriage. > >>Clearly, if your goal is to teach how to avoid unwanted pregnancies and AIDS, >>reserve-your-sexuality-for-the-boundaries-of-marriage is the wrong lesson. > >So you have figures to show that AIDS and un-wanted pregnancies are more >likely within Christian marriage than amongst those practicing "safe" >sex? People who refrain from unsafe behaviors, which involve the exchange of semen, vaginal fluid, blood, or mother's milk, and who are not previously infected, will have virtually no chance of HIV infection. Since many people within Christian marriage do not refrain from unsafe behaviors, HIV infection is much more likely to occur within Christian marriage than within a group which refrains from unsafe behaviors. >If not, you cannot say that this message is wrong, only that you >don't want to hear it, that you prefer to hear other messages. Your message is wrong. Can you see now who doesn't want to hear which message? The rate of infection among gay men has been drastically reduced. Which message do you think worked? I have seen no mass exodus among gay males towards the boundaries of Christian marriage. Really, there are much better reasons than this for Christian marriage. This rather weak "message" is nothing more than a disguised homophobic attack, whether intended or not, which goes far in perpetuating the stigmatization of people with AIDS and impeding the education necessary to stem the spread of HIV infection. >>How many times must I have shoved down my throat the message that "AIDS-is- >>a-punishment-from-God"? > >It is not a punishment from God. However the prevalence of AIDS is >caused by the unwillingness of people to accept the world as God made >it. If you stand near an unstable cliff to see the beautiful view, then >it is not a punishment from God if the cliff collapses. It is your own >doing, don't blame God for making the beautiful cliff. I suppose you have done extensive epidemiological studies to confirm your rather remarkable hypothesis. Do tell, what is involved in people accepting the world as God made it? How were hemophiliacs in the United States not accepting of the world? What about spouses of IV drug users? What about people in Eastern Europe, or around the world, who have been infected in hospitals with unsterilized needles? And who exactly are you accusing of blaming God? It isn't people with AIDS that I see doing this, but holier-than-thou Christians. Our humble moderator may see a subtle difference between AIDS-as-punishment-from-God and AIDS-as- that's-your-own-doing, but I don't. Both blame the infected person. I hope that you can begin to appreciate the fallacy of this argument, in either form. >Moderator: >>While I understand that you don't think God is >>specifically imposing AIDS as a punishment, this is an impression that >>Christians have given, and we need to be careful in our presentations >>to avoid it. >How are we to watch the pain in our brothers and sisters, and resist >telling them that it is because they will not look at the world that >God has created? Have you really watched the pain that people with AIDS have gone through? Have you ministered to them and been there for them? Have you done anything for them besides blame them for their disease? If not, then I shudder at how you treat these people you call brothers and sisters.