awmurray@eos.ncsu.edu (ALAN WAYNE MURRAY) (02/28/91)
In article <Feb.25.09.30.08.1991.1772@athos.rutgers.edu>, chuck@csn.csn.org (Chuck Luciano) writes: > The origin of the peace sign is of interest to me. I can't quote you references > for this but here is my hearsay: > > The peace sign is infact a broken cross as is the swastika. They are both > ancient (probably 1st century AD) symbols of satanism and witchcraft as is > the pentacle and the cross of confusion. I've heard the same things. The name of the book that I saw it in was : _Satanism:_The Seduction_Of_America's_Youth_ by Bob Larson (Larsen?) whatever. Anyway, its something (I think Bob) Larson. It's a recent book (pub. after 1989). It is a typical Christian book (as it knocks everything I like) but it does list the peace symbol and swastika as Satanic symbols. (There are two different versions of the swastika (AKA 'the twisted cross'). The Nazi swastika was borrowed from another symbol which was turned the opposite way but has nothing to do with Satanism.) As for the peace sign, it was originated by drawing a circle around a cross, turning the cross upside down, and breaking the arms. Larson goes on to list several more (around a dozen or so), and to tell us why not to play role-playing games(esp. AD&D) and why not to listen to heavy metal. There is such a thing as going overboard, I'm afraid... [Let me ask again, is there clear evidence that the people who advocate this as a peace symbol actually created it by mutilating the cross, or is someone simply making up an uncomplimentary explanation after the fact? The interpretations of the symbol given by those who use it are rather different. There should be fairly clear evidence before we accuse fellow Christians of being liars. --clh]
bill@emx.utexas.edu (Bill Jefferys) (03/05/91)
In article <Feb.28.03.52.52.1991.10021@athos.rutgers.edu> awmurray@eos.ncsu.edu (ALAN WAYNE MURRAY) writes: #In article <Feb.25.09.30.08.1991.1772@athos.rutgers.edu>, #chuck@csn.csn.org (Chuck Luciano) writes: #> The origin of the peace sign is of interest to me. I can't quote you #references #> for this but here is my hearsay: #> #> The peace sign is infact a broken cross as is the swastika. They are both #> ancient (probably 1st century AD) symbols of satanism and witchcraft as is #> the pentacle and the cross of confusion. # # As for the peace sign, it was originated by drawing a circle around a #cross, turning the cross upside down, and breaking the arms. Larson #goes on to list several more (around a dozen or so), and to tell us why #not to play role-playing games(esp. AD&D) and why not to listen to heavy #metal. There is such a thing as going overboard, I'm afraid... # #[Let me ask again, is there clear evidence that the people who #advocate this as a peace symbol actually created it by mutilating the #cross, or is someone simply making up an uncomplimentary explanation #after the fact? The interpretations of the symbol given by those who #use it are rather different. There should be fairly clear evidence #before we accuse fellow Christians of being liars. --clh] I would like to second this request from our moderator. I happen to have been involved in the peace movement from the mid-fifties, and I never heard this interpretation until the seventies at least. I always understood that the symbol was invented by the British Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, and that it was based on the semaphore for `ND'. I was a subscriber to a British peace publication at the time, and remember reading about this origin. The name of the person who invented the symbol is known. So I ask for clear evidence. Acceptable evidence would be: A reference or references in books published PRIOR TO 1950 that can be found in a good University library such as ours, that clearly and unambiguously describe the symbol and the alleged origin; or references in scholarly (repeat: SCHOLARLY) books published after 1950 to SPECIFIC ancient manuscripts containing information about the alleged origins, that could be verified by a scholar. Bill Jefferys -- If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your kill file --Robert Firth
djohnson@ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) (03/05/91)
Whether or not the peace sign was once a satanic symbol should be of little concern. Of more importance is its present meaning. When I was small, it was generally accepted by the people I knew that the peace sign was a satanic symbol at the worst, and at best a tool of communism (which was close to the same thing). Looking back, I sense that many people had great misgivings about the peace movement, whose leaders were most likely anti-American, and therefore, anti-everything-good. So naturally, when friends told them that they heard from someone else that this odd symbol was really a broken cross, why this made everything clear. The fact that this symbol was worn by every doped-up hippie you met (every single one of whom were obviously involved in satanism) only firmed their convictions. I'm pretty sure that no matter what symbol was used by the peace movement, people would have found fault with it (or complained that it was a good symbol converted to evil purposes). Even the environment flag (not seen much nowdays) was seen by many as a corruption of old glory. -- Darin Johnson djohnson@ucsd.edu - Political correctness is Turing undecidable.
burns@das.harvard.edu (03/05/91)
Reproduced from "More of the Straight Dope" by Cecil Adams (New York: Ballantine Books, 1988), pp. 149-151: "The design for the familiar crow's-foot-in-a-circle we know as the peace symbol was completed February 21, 1958, by British commercial artist Gerald Holtom. Holtom had been commisioned by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, headed by philosopher Bertrand Russell, which was planning an Easter march to Canterbury Cathedral to protest the Atomic Weapons Research Center at Aldermaston. After doodling around with several versions of the Christian cross set in a circle, Holtom hit upon the crow's-foot idea, which had a couple things going for it. First, it was a combination of the semaphore signals for N and D, standing for Nuclear Disarmament. N is two flags held in an upside-down V and D is one flag pointed straight up and the other pointed straight down. Second, the crow's-foot has an ancient history as a symbol of death and despair--it looks like somebody spreading his hands in a gesture of defeat. The symbol is shown in a 1955 tome called "The Book of Signs" by Rudolf Koch, a German calligrapher, although it's unclear whether Holtom saw it there. The circle, finally, can mean "eternity", "the unborn child", and so on. From this you can no doubt cook up a suitably apocalyptic interpretation of the symbol as a whole. During the heyday of the peace movement, other interpretations of the symbol were also offered. A national Republican newsletter noted that it looked a lot like an emblem used by the Nazis during World War II--an apparent coincidence. Another interpretation, widely promoted by the John Birch Society and other right-wing groups, was that the symbol was really the "broken cross", sign of the Antichrist. One Bircher wrote that the broken cross had originally been devised by the Roman emperor Nero, who had Saint Peter crucified upon it upside down. In the Middle Ages the symbol allegedly was used to signify the devil. I have been unable to discover any good evidence for either of these contentions. The Birchers, you may remember, also distributed bumper stickers featuring the peace symbol with the slogan, "Footprint of the American Chicken". Birchers are noted for their spry sense of humor." Copyright (C) 1988 by Chicago Reader, Incorporated John A. Burns (burns@das.harvard.edu, burns@huche1.bitnet)
farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) (03/09/91)
I believe that the swastica is an American Indian sign. Does anyone know if this is true? Frank
conan@sizzlean.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe) (03/12/91)
In article <Mar.8.23.04.21.1991.20475@athos.rutgers.edu> farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) writes: >I believe that the swastica is an American Indian sign. Does anyone >know if this is true? I believe it was, though I can offer only tangential evidence. In the 20's and 30's there was an honorary Boy Scout association known as the "Order of the White Swastika". From what I know of it, it drew heavily on American Indian "symbols" and "rituals" (in quotes since I have no idea how authentic these were). The group used a swastika as its main symbol (though theirs was oriented differently from a Nazi swastika). I hope this helps. Can anyone say anything more specific? Yours in Christ, David Cruz-Uribe, SFO
merlyn@digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy) (03/12/91)
farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) writes: >I believe that the swastica is an American Indian sign. Does anyone >know if this is true? Not "true" in the sense you are probably asking. There are American Indian designs with what appears to be a swastica, but it is not related to the Nazi emblem. It is just a common design, often mirror-imaged and/or proportioned differently. There are "swasticas" on an Indian blanket in _The_Paleface_, a 1921 Buster Keaton two-reeler, for instance. Hitler & co. went through old Germanic symbols to come up with the swastica. --- Merlyn LeRoy
tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) (03/13/91)
In article <Mar.12.04.20.46.1991.1749@athos.rutgers.edu> conan@sizzlean.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe) writes: >>I believe that the swastica is an American Indian sign. Does anyone >>know if this is true? > >I believe it was, though I can offer only tangential evidence. In the >20's and 30's there was an honorary Boy Scout association known as the >"Order of the White Swastika". From what I know of it, it drew heavily >on American Indian "symbols" and "rituals" (in quotes since I have no >idea how authentic these were). The group used a swastika as its main >symbol (though theirs was oriented differently from a Nazi swastika). Back at the time when the war was breaking out in Europe, the "Corn Palace" in the US covered their facade with a series of "Native American" symbols. One of them was the swastika. The terrible faux-pas was pointed out to them and the swastika was removed quite swiftly. (I learned of this while touring the Corn Palace). Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton
jhpb@cbnewsm.att.com (03/14/91)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned something in this thread. I was once flipping through a work on Christian archaeology, and came across a "list" of various early Christian symbols. You know, the fish, ICHTHYS, the chi-rho, various forms of crosses, that sort of thing. The swastika was one of them.