[soc.religion.christian] DEATH & HELL-5 - RICH MAN & LAZARUS

davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (03/19/91)

Luke is full of the Parables of Jesus and this is clearly  a  parable  among
other parables.

A quick glance through the book of Luke will turn up at least  20  of  Jesus
parables  and  most  of  these do not show up in the other Gospels.  One key
feature of the book of Luke is the number of parables it contains.   Chapter
16 starts with the "Parable of the Dishonest Steward" and when Jesus is done
the Pharisees sneer back at Jesus  (vs  14).   The  chapter  begins  with  a
parable on stewardship and is followed with another parable on stewardship -
"The Rich Man and Lazarus".  My point is that this parable  is  found  among
many  parables,  is  in the context of stewardship and the parable has clear
interpretation in regards to stewardship.  As it is with parables,  once  we
understand   the   basic  message,  it  is  best  not  to  continue  finding
applications that the parable was not meant to communicate.

The parable of the Ten Virgins had nothing to do with literal virgins.   The
parable of the Lost Coin is really not about money.  The parable of the Lost
Sheep is not for the farmers almanac.  The parable about the "Pearl of Great
Price"  does  not  teach  us that heaven is like a pearl.  So it is with the
parable of the Rich Man & Lazarus.  It is not about hell.

Let us see what conclusions we come to if we allow a literal  interpretation
of  this  parable:   1)  If taken literally then the rich go to hell and the
poor go to heaven.  2) When buried we go to hell  along  with  our  fingers,
eyes,  tongue etc. {But when graves are exhumed we do find physical remains}
3) Heaven is within sight of hell.  Is hell that close to heaven?   4)  Hell
is  close enough to Heaven that those in Heaven can hear those in Hell. Does
that place heaven near the center of the earth?  4)  Those  enjoying  heaven
must endure the pleadings of those in hell.  5) Abraham, and not Mary is our
real spokesman in heaven.  6) Abraham's bosom cannot  possibly  be  literal.
7)  Hell  is  cool  enough  that only a few drops of water are sufficient to
quench the thirst.   8) Those who die and go to heaven can come  warn  those
who  have not died yet.  9) Someone in hell, perhaps persuaded by talking to
someone in heaven, can repent of  his  bad  deeds  but  still  find  himself
eternally  locked up in hell - the gulf between is too wide to cross.   This
parable would then clearly do away with Purgatory,  of  which  there  is  no
mention.

Some people insist that the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is the  only
parable  in  which  a  man  is named.  You insist that if there is a literal
name, then at least some of the parable must be taken  literally.   That  of
course  opens  up  a  pandoras  box  of  picking  and  choosing what to take
literally.  My position is that this is a symbolic parable with a moral that
has  nothing  to do with a literal hell.  As it is with parables, search out
the moral, find its application in your life and then don't go on  to  apply
it where it was never intended to be applied.

I went to the library to see if the Jewish  Encyclopedia  might  offer  some
contemporary insight.  There was nothing on the Biblical Lazarus.  I checked
the Catholic Encyclopedia and was pleasantly surprised.

     "LAZARUS

     "Name of two men in the NT.  The Greek form of the  name,  <greek>,  is
     based  on  an  abbreviated  form  of  the  Hebrew  name elazar (God has
     helped).

     "Lazarus of Bethany. He . . . . . . . . . . .

     "Lazarus the Poor Man.  In one of His parables (Lk 16:19-31) Jesus gave
     the  name  Lazarus  to  the  man who lay sick and miserable at the rich
     man's gate, longing in vain for "the crumbs that  fell  from  the  rich
     man's  table";  when  both  men  died,  Lazarus  was borne by angels to
     *Abraham's bosom, to dine at the messianic banquet table, but the  rich
     man  went to torments in *Hades. This is the only NT parable in which a
     character is given a name.  Perhaps Jesus did  so  here  to  show  that
     Lazarus  put  his trust in God's help, as the name signifies.  The rich
     man is popularly called Dives, which is merely the Latin word for "rich
     man."   He  is  called Neus (Ninive?) in the early MS P, and Phinees in
     the Sahidic (Coptic) version, Despite the use of  a  personal  name  in
     this parable, the characters in it were obviously not historical.  How-
     ever, in the Middle Ages  the  poor  man  of  the  parable  became  St.
     Lazarus, the patron of beggars and lepers (Known also as lazars)."

Notice the statement: "Despite the use of a personal name in  this  parable,
the  characters  in  it were obviously not historical."  In other words, the
name Lazarus is considered to be  symbolic  by  the  Catholic  Encyclopedia.
Note  also  that  they  did  not  apply this parable to hell as I would have
expected.

Here is what I found in the Interpreters Bible which claims 146 editors  and
consulting editors.  To save you time I'll just glean a few highlights:

     Two distinct themes - reversal of values in life to come and poor  will
     be rewarded and the rich punished.

     "19-31. Parable of the Rich Man and the Beggar -- (See also . . . .  .)
     This story was the spark that touched off the revolution in the life of
     Albert Schweitzer.  He concluded that Africa  was  a  beggar  lying  at
     Europe's  doorstep,  so he founded the Lambarene Hospital.  The parable
     has that kind of power. . . . . . . .


     "This parable is not theology.  It is a vivid story, not  a  Baedeker's
     guide  to  the next world.  Such stories as this were current in Jesus'
     day.  They are found in rabbinical sources, and even in Egyptian papyri
     (see  Exeg.).  The  climate of the story is almost that of the play The
     Green Pastures. But we cannot be casual with it, for  its  symbols  are
     the  shadows  of realities.  It tells us that inequalities on earth are
     redressed in heaven: lowliness (Lazarus means "God helps") is  rewarded
     hereafter, and self- indulgent pride is rebuked.  We all see that self-
     ishness makes hell on earth: why should we doubt that  it  brings  hell
     hereafter?   The  story  tells  us of a great gulf.  If a man chooses a
     cheap heaven here, he can hardly expect to have a  real  heaven  beyond
     death, for he has lost both taste and aptitude for a real heaven.  If a
     man lives without compassion, he manifestly digs a chasm  between  him-
     self  and  his  fellow  men; and by the same token he separates himself
     from God, for God is love.  The story tells us that life here  fashions
     an eternal destiny."

Again we see an objective encyclopedia making it clear that this is  a  sym-
bolic parable.

And now for the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:

     "A man in a parable Jesus told (Lk. 16:19-31) to  teach  that  people's
     conduct  on  this  side  of the grave determines their situations after
     death. This parable follows a  story  common  in  Egyptian  and  Jewish
     thought,  in  which the wicked rich and the pious poor have their posi-
     tions reversed in the afterlife.  It is told from the point of view  of
     the  rich  man  (often called Dives from the Latin for "rich man"), who
     speaks with Abraham from his place of torment."

It should now be clear that the parable was dealing with  monetary  steward-
ship  and stewardship of the form that Albert Schweitzer took to heart.  But
I also propose 3'd form of stewardship - the stewardship of the Gospel:

Jesus knew the value of parables in teaching  the  people.   He  desired  to
stimulate  their  deepest  thought and contemplation, and He knew that if He
spoke too literally, certain of His hearers would quickly forget His  words.
Perhaps  He  also  knew  that direct speech would be lost to history while a
Parable would make it into our Bible.  Also, his  parables  often  contained
stern  rebuke.    If  He  had spoken directly, his listeners would they have
silenced Him with violence.  "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries  of
the  kingdom  of  God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not
see, and hearing they might not understand"  (Luke 8:10).  Those who  search
for  truth will find it and those searching for excuses will find them also.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, a class of men who were  notorious  all
through  the  Gospels  for their refusal to deal honestly with Jesus and the
truths He taught.  Paul was not so tactful when  dealing  with  them.   When
ever  Paul mentioned that he was commissioned to take the Gospel to the Gen-
tiles the Jews became instantly violent  and  Paul's  Roman  guards  had  to
escort him back into the barracks to preserve his life (Acts 22:21-22).  The
message of this Parable, to me, deals with the  same  problem  of  the  Jews
being  so  thoroughly prejudiced against the Gentiles especially the Samari-
tans.

From this perspective who symbolized  the  rich  man?   The  Jews  had  been
blessed  above  measure  by a knowledge of God and His plan of salvation for
all mankind. They had  received  "the  adoption,  and  the  glory,  and  the
covenants,  and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the prom-
ises" (Romans 9:4).  They founded their security on the fact theat they were
children  of Abraham.  Only a Jew would pray to "Father Abraham," as we find
the rich man doing in the story. The Jewish nation was  clearly  represented
by  the Rich Man.  And the Jews treated the Gentiles, especially the Samari-
tans, as the 'dogs' who would have to be satisfied with the  crumbs  falling
from  the  bountiful  table  of those rich in the workings of salvation.  In
matters spiritual, the Jews viewed the Gentiles as  being  exceedingly  poor
and  unworthy,  and the Lazarus of our story fits their prejudice precisely.

If the parable had been more obvious Jesus would have  been  mobbed  on  the
spot.   Elsewhere Jesus says that the poor in spirit will inherit the earth.
"Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and harlots go into  the  kingdom
of  God  before you"  (Matt 21:31)  The Jews had always been urged to spread
the good news to their neighbors and refused to do so.  Those who  have  not
heard  the  message stand a better chance of heaven than those who should be
delivering the message and do not.

At the close of the chapter we hear Jesus say "If they hear  not  Moses  and
the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead"
(Luke 16:31)   Let us also not forget what happened a little while later.  A
real  Lazarus  was raised from the dead and the Pharisees determined to kill
Lazarus and were even more determined to kill Jesus.  If Lazarus could  rise
from the dead, then Jesus could rise from the dead.  This was a gospel story
the Pharisees would rather send back to the grave.

It is not my objective to blast the Jews.  No!  I think this parable is  for
all  of us to get busy and carry the gospel to our neighbors who do not know
of Jesus.  We should also consider that the tables are now turned on us  and
we  should be taking the gospel to the Jews who have been so long abused and
tormented by 'Christianity'.

Dave (David E. Buxton)
From the Silicon RainForest of the Northwest

ph600fev@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Robert O'Barr) (03/20/91)

I think one rule of thumb when we read the parables is that we
should not overinterpret nor underinterpret them.

I understand the following from the parable:

The rich man had been blessed tremendously by the Lord.  He did not
use his riches to succor the poor rather "when the least of his
brethren was an hungered, he gave him no meat"  Christ in the
parable of Lazarus and the rich man is teaching the consequences of
such treatment of the poor.  The consequence of the rich man's
hatred of the poor is that at death, his body is burried yet he
(his eternal spirit) goes to hades.

What does the greek word hades mean?

Ha.des ha-d-(.)e-z\ n [Gk Haide-s] 2: SHEOL 
She.ol \she--'o-l, 'she--.\ n [Heb Shebreve>'o-l] 1: an underworld where 
   according to ancient Hebrew belief the dead have a shadowy existence 

In hades, the rich man suffers.  Lazarus is not subject to the
torments that the rich man is, rather he is with Abraham (the
righteous) and there is a gulf fixed between those who did good and
those who did evil.  Christ also teaches us that if men don't listen
to his servents the prophets, then it is unlikely that they will
listen to one rising from the dead (or an angel, or a miracle,
etc.)

If it is true that the existance of hades is a pagan belief, then we
are really accusing Christ of teaching false doctrine.  Most people
I know who have related their personal beliefs of what Christ is
trying to teach here ( the percentage goes way up if I delete those
from just two denominations ) understand that yes Christ is teaching
that at death, we go to hades where if we have been wicked, we will
be punished for our sins.  My own opinion is that Christ, even when
teaching with parables never taught in a way that even the least
in tune with the spirit would be lead to believe he was advocating
false and pagan doctrine.  This posting I am following up to and
several similar articles I have read that are of even greater
length make me ask the following question.  Why do people always
dedicate so much effort to try to show that this parable doesn't
teach what it appears to teach?  Is Christ really such a poor
teacher that we need several pages of well thought out arguement to
conclude that what Christ appears to be teaching really can't be
so?  To me, there is no teacher so powerfull and clear as Jesus.

Robert