davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (03/20/91)
Earlier I have shown that the wicked do not go straight to a torturing hell. The wicked have reserved seats in the lake of fire which has not yet been lit (2 Peter 2:9). OK you say, hell is not lit and the dead are 'asleep'. But now what happens once God ignites the lake of fire. Is the final lake of fire a fire that goes on torturing for eternity? Let us see if the wicked are made of Asbestos, as some preachers claim, or of Stubble or Wax that can be thoroughly and quickly consumed. I have over 50 texts (and many more can be found) that indicate the combustible and consumable nature of the wicked. Here are a few of them: Consumed like a moth. (Ps. 39:11) Like a snail which melts away as it goes. (Psa 58:8) Consume them in wrath that they may not be. (Psa 59:13) As wax melts before the fire, So let the wicked perish at the presence of God. (Psa 68:2) As a flower of the field, flourishes, is gone and remembered no more." (Psa 103:15,16) The lamp of the wicked will be put out. (Prov 13:9; 24:20) As the fire devours the stubble, and the flame consumes the chaff. (Isa 5:24) "Behold, they shall be as stubble, the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame; it shall not be a coal to be warmed by, nor a fire to sit before!" -- Isa 47:14 (NKJ) Wicked will be stubble, day coming will burn them up, root and branch. (Mal 4:1) ""And even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." -- Mat 3:10 (NKJ) Matt 7:19 similar. He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable{asbestos} fire. (Mat 3:12; Luke 3:17) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matt. 10:28) " 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." '"" -- Mat 13:30 (NKJ) What about the texts where Jesus says it is the physical body and not some vaporous spirit that goes to hell? than for your whole body to go into hell. (Mat 5:29,30) able to destroy the body in hell. (Mat 10:28) than having two hands to go into hell (Mark 9:43) two feet into hell (vs 45) two eyes (vs 47) These texts do not speak of ethereal souls in hell but rather of physical bodies and body parts. And earlier I showed that hell is really the grave where body and soul are no longer concious. But in this post we are inves- tigating the possibility that hell may be the final lake of fire. GNASHING TEETH What about "gnashing teeth"? Weeping and wailing and "gnashing of teeth"? In the Bible, the gnashing of teeth is not at all a suggestive of pain and torture but rather an expression of aggressive anger: My adversary sharpens His gaze on me and gnashes at me with His teeth. (Job 16:9) The wicked plots against the just and gnashes at him with his teeth. (Psa 37:12) Ungodly mockers gnashed at me with their teeth. (Psa 35:16) Wicked will be grieved and will gnash his teeth and melt away and shall perish. Psa 112:10) Your enemies hiss and gnash their teeth. (Lam 2:16) Weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth. (Mat 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30; Luke 13:28) First comes the remorse at their rebellion and then the bitter rage against God and then the fire consumes. EVERLASTING UNQUENCHABLE FIRE: What about the texts such as Matt 25:41, Mark 9:43 and Rev. 20:9,10 that talk about everlasting or unquenchable fire prepared for the devil and his angels? Compare them with these texts: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7) Brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah. (Gen 19:24,25) The next day Abraham saw the smoke going up like the smoke of a furnace. (Gen 19:27,28) Edom like Sodom and Gomorrah, No one shall abide there. (Jer 49:17,18) "But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day . . . then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched. (Jer 17:27) The fire was not quenched until all was ashes. (11 Chron. 36:19-21) Unquenchable fire that cannot be quenched until it has totally consumed and with everlasting results. Those who have visited the place called Sodom and stayed in the Lot hotel, on the shores of the Dead Sea, can confirm that these cities were thoroughly and eternally destroyed with a fire that the Bible calls 'eternal fire'. The dead sea covers the place where these cities once stood. The fires could not be quenched until they were done consuming. Attempts to put out the fires were hopeless. Those who have studied the destruction of Jerusalem can testify that these fires did finally go out a long time ago. But some will insist that Jude 1:7 says that the people of Sodom were sent to hell and that is where the unquenchable fire of Sodom, Gomorrah, Babylon and Jerusalem are to be found. "The punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, which was overthrown in a moment, with no hand to help her!" -- Lam 4:6 (NKJ) ". . . . I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree and every dry tree . . . . it shall not be quenched.""-- Ezek 20:47,48 (NKJ) "The strong shall be as tinder, and the work of it as a spark; both will burn together, and no one shall quench them." -- Isa 1:31 (NKJ) Babylon like Sodom and Gomorrah. Not inhabited, only wild beasts. (Isa 13:19-22; Jer 50:39,40) Defeated Babylonians sleeping a perpetual sleep and not awake. (Jer 51:39,57) Let us consider secular history: Homer told of the "inextinguishable fire," which consumed the Grecian fleet. Eusebius described the martyrdom of two Christians condemned to be burned with "inextinguishable fire". During the great Chicago fire, it was said that nobody could quench that fire. Chicago was destroyed by unquenchable fire. That is what the newspapers said. Is Chicago still burning? Did the newsmen say Chicago was relocated to hell? People reading the newspaper have no trouble understanding what unquenchable means. The unquenchable fire cannot be quenched until it has thoroughly consumed. The fire department can turn on their hoses, but it does little good until the fire has completed its grim work. Unquenchable is so consum- ing that even re-incarnation must be ruled out. So unquenchable that it is our assurance that Satan and his host have no chance of survival. WORMS What about the worms that do not die? A few years ago I read a story about an American who went to be a cowboy in South America. A deep gash in his leg became infected. With the medicine on hand he was unable to stop this particular infection which continued to fester. A native suggested blow fly larvae - the maggots that the Bible would call worms. So he opened the wound, tossed in a small handful of maggots and put a large bandage over it. A couple weeks later he opened up the bandage, gave the maggots a whiff of ether and then poured them out onto the ground. The maggots had eaten all the dead rotting tissue and had not touched any living flesh. The wound was pink and sterile. The infection was completely gone. In the Bible we see the same thing. The 'worms' are symbolic of death and not of life. They are symbolic of dead rotting bodies with no claim at all to life or cons- ciousness of any kind. As long as there is any sign of the infection of sin the worms will symbolically continue to eat it up until it is all gone. "They lie down alike in the dust, and worms cover them." -- Job 21:26 (NKJ) The worm will eat them like wool. (Isa 51:8) The worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:44,46,48) As long as there is anything combustible the fire will continue to burn and cannot be put out. As long as there is dead meat for the maggots they will not die and will continue to feed. Once the body is consumed there is no more fire and no more worm. Worms and the valley of Hinnom (gehenna) are symbolic of places for the dead and no consciousness is suggested. In the Bible context there is no suggestion at all of life. This is death that remains dead with absolutely no consciousness. The symbolism is that of consuming the decay of sin until there is no more sin to haunt the eternal future of the saints. EVERLASTING: What about ". . . . . smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast . . . . .". (Rev. 14:9-11)? Here are some Old Testament texts worth looking up in several different translations - Exodus 21:6; Ex. 12:24; Jonah 2:6. New Testament Greek used the word 'aions' 123 times. 55 times it is rendered 'forever' or 'forever and ever'. Here are a few examples of its usage: " "then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever{olam}. "-- Exo 21:6 (NKJ) Jonah in the belly of the whale - "The waters encompassed me, even to my soul; the deep closed around me; weeds were wrapped around my head. I went down to the moorings of the mountains; the earth with its bars closed behind me forever{olam}; yet You have brought up my life from the grave, O LORD, my God. (Jonah 2:5,6) Do not conform to this world{aions}. This 'age', in another transla- tion. (Rom. 12:2) The people of this age{aions} marry and give in marriage. (Luke 20:34) The god of this age{aions}, the devil, has blinded the unbelieving from the light of the Gospel. (2 Cor. 4:4) "These things happen to them as examples and were written down as warn- ings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages{aions} has come." (1 Cor. 10:11) "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world{aions}; and the reapers are the angels. (Matt. 13:39) "who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age{aions}." (Heb. 6:5) The word 'aions' refers to a state or period of undefined length, often determined by context. It speaks of unlimited time within the limits deter- mined by the thing it modifies. When God is said to be 'eternal' it means that God is truly 'forever'. Satan and his host will be confined to this earth (hell) during the millenial 'aion' (1000 years) while the saints are in heaven with Jesus. Sometimes 'aions' does mean ages without end. But, clearly it can also mean ages of unknown and limited length. 'aionios' means permanence within limits. The 'aionios reign of Tiberius Caesar was 23 years. You are familiar with the expression "long live the king". In Caesars day you would use the word 'aionios' - to express the expectation that Caesar's rule would meet no untimely end. Revelation 20:9 says that fire came down from heaven and devoured them. See also Matt. 13:4 which talks about birds devouring seeds - same Greek word. The Bible makes it clear in enough places that the unknown length of time does indeed come to an end for Satan and his wicked host who will be thoroughly and for ever consumed. Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of eternal{aionios} fire." (Jude 1:7) Sodom, which was overthrown in a moment. (Lam 4:6) It should be clear that unquenchable and 'aionios' can have related meaning. Sometimes the meaning of 'aionios' is that the consequence and not the action is eter- nal. The Bible shows us that the wicked and Satan with his host receive a real death sentence rather than a life sentence. If it was an eternal life sen- tence then I would be in fear of their eventual escape. "Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them." (Psalm 9:5,6) "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (Rev. 21:4) In the end there will not even be the pain of knowing that someone you knew is still roasting in hell. The lake of fire will have consumed and the memory of it will be left to the past. Clearly, the former things will indeed be passed away. How can the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan come to it's end with God thoroughly vindicated as a truly loving God if Satan and his host can continue to cry out from hell. After awhile would not the saints come to sympathize with his well crafted entreaties? Those who would propose re-incarnation must understand what everlasting destruction means. It means that Satan and his host can never be re-incarnated. Their destruction will be everlasting and eternal. "Whatever they plot against the Lord he will bring to an end; trouble will not come a second time." (Nahum 1:9) Clearly, the former things will be passed away. We really will leave the problems of this sin- ful earth behind. Dave (David E. Buxton) From the Silicon RainForest or the Northwest
ajm@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Tony McGregor) (03/22/91)
I know this is a small point from a large posting but I feel bound to at least mention it. In article <Mar.20.03.43.48.1991.9297@athos.rutgers.edu> davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) writes: >What about the worms that do not die? A few years ago I read a story >... with the medicine on hand he was unable to stop this particular >infection ... he opened the wound, tossed in a small handful of >maggots and put a large bandage over it. ... he opened up the bandage >The maggots had ... not touched any living flesh. The wound was pink >and sterile. The infection was completely gone. In the Bible we see >the same thing. ... I don't think you can use this story as a basis for your biblical interpretation; it is very likely to be false. Maggots do eat living flesh and, if not stopped, will kill an otherwise healthy animal. It is very unpleasant to see the result of a a maggot infection and often makes people vomit. Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor ( ajm@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au ) Department of Robotics and Digital Technology, Monash University PO Box 197, Caulfield East, Vic 3145, Australia Phone: +61 3 5732014 Fax: +61 3 5732745 ----------------------------------------------------------------------