[soc.religion.christian] DEATH & HELL-11 - was it SAMUEL who talked to SAUL?

davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (03/30/91)

Here is the story of Saul relative to the witch of Endor:

     When Samuel brought messages from God to Saul, Saul repeatedly tried to
     justify  his  actions  which  were  increasingly  contrary  to what God
     expected of him.  (1 Sam 13, 15, etc.)

     Samuel mourned for Saul but never went to see him again.  (1 Sam 15:35)

     Samuel died.  (1 Sam 25:1)

     Saul in persuit of David, yet David spares his life.  (1 Sam 26, 27)

     Saul terrified of the Philistine army.  (1 Sam 28:5)

     "And when Saul inquired of the LORD,  the  LORD  did  not  answer  him,
     either  by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.  Then Saul said to his
     servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go  to  her  and
     inquire  of  her."  And  his servants said to him, "In fact, there is a
     woman who is a medium at En Dor. So Saul disguised himself and  put  on
     other  clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the
     woman by night. And he said, "Please conduct a seance for me, and bring
     up for me the one I shall name to you." "--  1 Sam 28:6-8  (NKJ)

     What do you see, Saul asks, "I  saw  a  spirit  ascending  out  of  the
     earth."  (1 Sam 28:13)

     An old man wearing a robe is coming up.  And with that description Saul
     is sure it is Samuel  (1 Sam 28:14)

Clearly we see Saul rejected by God and because God will not respond to  him
any  longer  he,  in  desperation,  goes  to  a spirit medium and asks for a
seance.  How can it be said that God refuses to communicate with Saul before
the  seance but then does so during the seance?  Saul did not see the spirit
entity.  The spirit medium describes the spirit that ascended up out of  the
earth.   Note  that  this spirit did not come down from heaven but up out of
the earth.  Her description sounds rather vague for Saul to be so sure.

Some insist that because Samuel was a prophet, that God would not let  Satan
impersonate him.  But again, God refused to communicate with Saul before the
seance and Satan is capable of impersonating an "angle of light":

     "And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an [angel  of
     light]. "--  2 Cor 11:14  (NKJ)

Some insist that because the spirit of Samuel prophecied the death  of  Saul
that  it  could have been none other than Samuel, sent from God, with a pro-
phecy for Saul.  This prophecy (vs 19) says that tomorrow you (Saul) will be
with me (Samuel).  How can this be if Samuel went to heaven and Saul is des-
tined soon to be in hell (suicide)?  Only Satan would have us  believe  that
we go to his spirit world when we die.  Note that the prophecy was that Saul
would die the next day. But at least three days pass  (1  Sam  30:1).   Saul
gets  involved  in the battle. His three sons are killed (1 Sam 31:2).  Saul
is wounded (vs 3).  His armor bearer refuses to kill him (vs 4).   He  kills
himself (vs 4).  Can suicide be an acceptable fulfillment of a prophecy from
God?  Sounds more like a prophecy that Satan is more than capable of  rather
than a prophecy demonstrating the power of God.

Here is a Biblical explanation of why Saul died:

     "So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the
     LORD, because he did not keep the word of the LORD, and also because he
     consulted a medium for guidance. "--  1 Chr 10:13  (NKJ)

Here is a story of spiritualism from Rio de Janeiro as told by a missionary:

     "More than the tropical heat kept me awake as the night breeze  carried
     the sound of haunting drum beats and the chanting of devil worshippers.

     "Earlier that night I had driven past Copacabana beach and seen throngs
     of  white-robed,  phantom-like  people  calling  upon  the  spirits.  I
     stopped to look.  What I saw would haunt me for the rest  of  my  life.
     Those people weren't playing games.

     "Right next to me stood a young lady who didn't believe in the superna-
     tural. She challenged one of the mediums to prove to her that the spir-
     its had mythical power.  My pulse quickened as I saw the swift response
     to  her  mad challenge.  Before I knew what was happening, her body was
     writhing, completely out of control, and was  eerily  tossed  into  the
     air, after which she landed on the ground with a thud.

     "In our eleven years in Brazil, we faced psychic  phenomena  that  defy
     description.   In that country, one sixth of the population indulges in
     some form of devil worship."

Those who have  denied  the  reality  of  demonic  forces  will  someday  be
overwhelmed  by  the  evidence  of  unexplainable phenomena.  Bible prophecy
tells us this will be a growing problem of the time of the end that  we  are
in.  In religious circles, widespread denial of the personality of the devil
has almost crushed the protective provision of  the  Holy  Scripture.   Many
Christians;  citing  healings,  deliverance from addictions, voices and many
other miracles prefer these 'authenticators' over the  clear  word  of  God.
God  will  send  a powerful delusion to those who do not search after truth.
(II Thes 2:9-11)

     "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,  but  against  principali-
     ties, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
     against spiritual wickedness in high places.  (Eph 6:12)

Many researchers have become aware of the reality of  something  behind  the
phenomena which they investigate.  There is too much evidence to dismiss it.
There are demonic powers which do not just exist in the minds of  frightened
people.  There is no denial that satanic miracles exist in abundance.

Those who accept that a loved ones conscious soul goes to heaven are vulner-
able  to  spiritism  which  promises communication with departed loved ones.
Instead, they meet a masquerading demon.  It  promises  to  exalt  but  only
degrades  in the end.  It promises that all who hear its siren voice will be
like God, only to lead them into fellowship with  demons.   My  Bible  warns
that Satan and his host will become more and more active in their manifesta-
tions as time goes on. Everyone whose faith is not firmly  established  upon
the Word of God will be deceived and overcome.  How can you be sure to avoid
the increasing deceptions that we face?

     "And no marvel; for Satan himself  is  transformed  into  an  angel  of
     light.  (2 Cor 11:14)

Here is what Satan will sound like:

     His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody.  In gentle,  compas-
     sionate  tones  he  presents  some of the same gracious heavenly truths
     which the Saviour uttered.  His miracles will be thoroughly convincing.
     Only  his  subtle  departure  from  the true precepts of scripture will
     reveal his true identity.

Don't forget that Satan used to be Lucifer, the leader  of  God's  choir  in
heaven.

A warning from Isaiah:

     "And when they shall say unto you, seek unto them  that  have  familiar
     spirits,  and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter {Todays spiritism
     is far more subtle and modern}:  should not a people  seek  unto  their
     God?   For the living to the dead?  To the law and to the testimony: if
     they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no  light
     in them."  (Isaiah 8:19,20)

Mark 5 tells the story of the Gadarene demoniac with titanic strength in the
hands  of  Satan.   This  man could break stout chains that could not hold a
normal man.  I do not doubt the power of Satan and his impersonating  'spir-
its'.

A few more texts:

     Don't seek after FAMILIAR spirits or wizards.  (Lev. 19:31)

     By satanic aid Pharaoh's  magicians  counterfeited  the  works  of  God
     through Moses.  (Ex. 7:10-12)

     "For such are false apostles,  deceitful  workers,  transforming  them-
     selves  into  the apostles of Christ.  And no marvel; for Satan himself
     is transformed into an angel of light:  (2 Cor 11:13,14)

     Even the demons submit to Jesus name.  (Luke 10:17,18,20)

     In Luke 24 we find the disciples frightened when Jesus appeared  before
     them.  They  thought  Jesus  was  a spirit.  Such a spirit would be the
     spirit of Satan masquerading as Jesus.  Jesus urged them to  touch  Him
     and see that it was really the Jesus they knew.

     Put on the whole armor of God against the wiles of the devil;   for  we
     wrestle not against flesh and blood but against the rulers of darkness.
     (Eph. 6:11,12)

     Satan works with power and signs and lying wonders and  with  deceiving
     unrighteousness.  (II Thes. 2:9-12)

     Satan and his angels cast to this earth.  (Rev 12:7-10)

     Satan's miracles will deceive those who dwell  on  this  earth.   (Rev.
     13:13,14)

     "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles"  (Rev. 16:14).

Here are some quotes from the Encyclopedia of Occult & Parapsychology:

     Brenda Crenshaw, a Los Angeles psychic said:  "There  are  spirits  who
     are  impersonators  who  will come through a medium to make claims that
     are not true."

     Sir Arthur Conon Doyle, speaking of the spirits of the dead  with  whom
     he  professed  to  communicate,  one confessed:  "We have unhappily, to
     deal with absolute cold blooded lying on the part of wicked or  mische-
     vious intelligences."

     After experimenting with the occult, G.K. Chesterton said:   "The  only
     thing I will say with complete confidence about that mystic and invisi-
     ble power is that it tells lies."

"For we wrestle not against flesh and  blood,  but  against  principalities,
against  powers,  against  the rulers of the darkness of this world, against
spiritual wickedness in high places."  (Eph 6:12)

In Hebrews we find that there are ministering spirits {God's angels} who are
sent  by  God to minister unto us.  (Hebrews 1:14)  Let us not confuse these
with Satan's spirits who impersonate the dead, and also the living who  seek
to deceive us for profit.  (2 Cor. 11:14, 15 and 2 Thes. 2:9-12)

Yes, Jesus has His angels here on earth who do perform miracles and do visit
humans  on  this  earth.   The Bible makes it clear that these angels of God
never impersonate the dead.  Not once in the Bible, do we find an  Angel  of
God  claiming  to once be a human.  Usually His angels are mysteriously gone
before we realize they were one of God's angels, thinking  they  were  human
until they vanish.  Impersonations of the dead are only performed by Satan's
angels or by humans performing magic or deceit.

Dave (David E. Buxton)
From the Silicon RainForest of the Northwest