davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (04/01/91)
Some texts to consider:
Righteous Able, killed by brother Cain, did not go straight to heaven -
"And He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood
cries out to Me from the ground." -- Gen 4:10 (NKJ)
"For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will
give You thanks?" -- Psa 6:5 (NKJ)
"Will You work wonders for the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise
You? Selah Shall Your loving kindness be declared in the grave? Or
Your faithfulness in the place of destruction? Shall Your wonders be
known in the dark? And Your righteousness in the land of forgetful-
ness?" -- Psa 88:10-12 (NKJ)
"The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor any who go down into silence."
-- Psa 115:17 (NKJ)
"His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his
thoughts perish." (Psa 146:4)
"For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and
they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also
their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore
will they have a share in anything done under the sun." -- Eccl 9:5,6
(NKJ)
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some
to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt." -- Dan
12:2 (NKJ)
"His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low,
and he does not perceive it." -- Job 14:21 (NKJ)
""Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David,
that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day."
-- Acts 2:29 (NKJ) ""For David did not ascend into the heavens, . .
. ." -- Acts 2:34 (NKJ)
No reward (no heaven) until the resurrection - ""And you will be
blessed, because they cannot repay you; for you shall be repaid at the
resurrection of the just." " -- Luke 14:14 (NKJ)
The living righteous and the dead righteous will be caught up together
to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thess 4:17)
Jesus spoke clearly of death being a sleep when He resurrected the little
girl (Mark 5:39) and Lasarus (John 11:11-14). An entire post already
devoted to "soul sleep".
In the following text we can see that heaven was not ready for the saints
while Christ was here:
" "In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would
have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. "And if I go and
prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself;
that where I am, there you may be also. "-- John 14:2,3 (NKJ)
In 1 Thess 4:17 we see that the living righteous and the dead righteous will
be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. And that is when they go
to the heaven now being prepared for them.
It may seem cold and grim to think of spending time in the grave and so much
more appealing to think of going straight to heaven. This traditional view
really does not pan out from a full study of the Bible. It is much better
to think of death as passing in the twinkling of an eye. Both Adam and the
saved of today will arrive at the resurrection in the same brief instant of
zero concious time. Our expectation can indeed be of seeing Jesus coming in
the clouds the instant we die. There need be nothing to fear of the grave.
WHAT ABOUT PAUL?
Several of you have sited Paul as having expectations of being with Jesus as
soon as he died (Phil 1:23; 2 Cor 5:6-8). At first glance, and with only
these texts in hand, it would appear that Paul does support the straight to
heaven views that are so popular. But we have more than these texts to
examine and then quite a different picture of Paul's expectations emerges:
Elsewhere we see Paul wishing/hoping that he can be alive when Jesus returns
so that no resurrection will be necessary (1 Cor 15:51). Consider Heb
10:37; 2 Tim 4:9; Titus 2:13. In 2 Cor 5:1-4 Paul describes three states 1)
earthly clothing or house; 2) the nakedness of death; 3) clothed with the
'house' from heaven. Clearly Paul would like to skip the intermediate state
of death as nakedness without the earthly or heavenly house/clothing. Paul
also speaks clearly of the understand that for the dead time passes in the
mere twinkling of an eye. Here are some key texts of Paul's to consider:
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all
be changed; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trum-
pet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorrup-
tible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this
corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immor-
tality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written:
"Death is swallowed up in victory." "O Death, where is your sting? O
Hades, where is your victory?"" -- 1 Cor 15:51-55 (NKJ) {In that
day Hades must give up its sleeping saints to the resurrection}
"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who
have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if
we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with
Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of
the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself
will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be
with the Lord." -- 1 Th 4:13-17 (NKJ)
Clearly, "being with the Lord" comes at the 2nd Coming for those who are
alive and at the resurrection of His 2nd Coming for those who have died.
Paul offers the assurance that just as Jesus was resurrected, so the sleep-
ing saints will be resurrected to be taken by God to meet Jesus in the air.
First the resurrected dead and then we all together will meet the Lord in
the air and from then on we will always be with the Lord. That is when Paul
anticipated his reward:
"I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will
judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:" -- 2
Tim 4:1 (NKJ)
"Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the
Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me
only but also to all who have loved His appearing." -- 2 Tim 4:8
(NKJ)
Clearly Paul did not anticipate any reward, such as speeding to heaven when
he died, but rather his reward would be at our Lord's return and the
resurrection.
And some more texts from Paul's writings worth considering:
The Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your
mortal bodies. (Rom 8:11; 2 Cor 4:14)
"But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have
entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for
those who love Him." " -- 1 Cor 2:9 (NKJ)
"For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know
in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. " -- 1 Cor
13:12 (NKJ)
He (Jesus) will put an end to all rule and authority and put all enem-
ies under His feet. His final enemy will be death. (1 Cor 15:24-26)
"that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, . . . . I may
attain to the resurrection from the dead." -- Phil 3:10,11 (NKJ)
{Note here that while Jesus has the power over death, Paul does not
anticipate that power being exercised for him until the resurrection.}
How is it that Jesus died to be the Lord of both the dead and the living
(Romans 14:9), the Lord even of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? The answer is
clear and simple. If there had been no victory at the cross, these
patriarches would be doomed to remain in their graves. At the cross His
victory offered salvation to mankind both past and future. Without His
death He could neither be our Lord nor the Lord and savior of those already
dead when He died.
"Into thy hands I commend my spirit" (Luke 23:46) -- this text was dealt
with in my post on the "good thief".
Because of the delusions prophecied of the last days it is important that we
clearly understand the powers of Satan and the true condition of the dead.
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart
from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of
demons, "-- 1 Tim 4:1 (NKJ)
A pastor tells the story of a family with twelve children:
"There were twelve children in that family, and it was a happy home. I
loved to visit them every time I went to their city. But one day the
mother got sick and died. What a sad funeral! Twelve little children
with their father gathered around a grave.
"The next time I visited the family, the father was trying to play the
role of both father and mother to those twelve children. There was so
much sorrow and heartache as those little children kept asking, 'When
is mother coming back? We want our mother.'
Could you imagine that mother looking down from heaven and seeing her
children in the their sorrow? Would she enjoy the bliss of heaven
knowing that her family needed her? I'm afraid she would cry, 'Let me
go down to my family. They need me. This isn't heaven to me when I
know my family is suffering."
Here is a true story of a Christian living in Seattle. I'll have to drasti-
cally abbreviate it:
She considered herself to be a strong Christian and claimed full alle-
giance to God. Her church also taught that at death people go directly
to heaven.
She saw an add to come find about Metaphysics at a local Metaphysical
church. They sang religious hymns and appeared to be a Christian
church. They taught her to communicate with her dead husband. Soon he
began to appear to her and later in her apartment. Since she believed
that souls go to heaven she accepted this as genuine. The spirit was
soon telling her what to do in great detail - what TV programs to watch
etc. Eventually she became a spirit medium and was frankly willing to
agree that the spirit was not her husband but from the devil. She did
not want to be delivered and so there was nothing the pastor could do
for her.
Another woman received word that her husband had died in the war. She made
contact with him at a seance that she was persuaded to attend. She recog-
nized his voice and they often talked about things that only the two of them
would have any way of knowing about. She was thoroughly convinced that it
was him. Then one day she opened the door to a knock and it was him in the
flesh. He had not died in the war and his wounds were not all that serious.
She was now totally perplexed. She had been taught that her husband's soul
had lived on and gone to heaven. So it seemed logical that he could come
talk to her. Lying spirits had taken advantage of her loneliness. She gra-
dually became bitter and disillusioned with all religion. She discovered
that the notion that people go straight to heaven when they die is a fraud.
It is indeed a Fraud!
The only safe ground is to read carefully, understand and believe what God
has revealed in the Bible. And such a confidence can only come from
thoroughly knowing your Bible, and by committing your life completely to
Him. Then Satan cannot touch you with his lying wonders.
SHOULD WE WORSHIP ANGELS OR SAINTS?
The Bible speaks of Enoch and Elijah taken bodily to heaven without having
seen death. I also believe that Moses was resurrected and taken to heaven
(Jude 1:9; Mat 17:3; 9:4). Moses and Elijah met with Jesus when He was
transfigured on the mountain top (Mat 17:1-7; Mark 9:2-10). Also, those
resurrected at the time of Christ's resurrection (Eph 4:8) would be bodily
in heaven.
So, let us ask the question - should we be worshiping them - Enoch, Elijah,
Moses? Nowhere in the Bible is there any hint that they are to be
worshipped. Let us study further.
Man was created a little lower than the angels:
"What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You
visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And
You have crowned him with glory and honor. " -- Psa 8:4,5 (NKJ)
The author of Hebrews quotes from this passage (Heb 2:6,7). And then goes
on to extend the meaning to include Jesus, the son of man (Heb 2:9). The
point that I have just made is that if angels should not be worshiped, then
certainly men taken bodily to heaven should not be worshiped. It should
also apply that if there be 'saints' in heaven, then that which applies to
the worship of angels should apply to the worship of saints. We are not to
worship them.
Here Paul warns that the worship of angels could defraud you of your salva-
tion:
"Let no one defraud you of your reward, taking delight in false humil-
ity and worship of angels, . . . ." (Col 2:18)
Then we see the prophet John falling down to worship an angel.
"Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I
fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these
things. Then he said to me, "See that you do not do that. For I am your
fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who
keep the words of this book. Worship God." " -- Rev 22:8,9 (NKJ)
I know of nowhere in the Bible where angels allow themselves to be
worshipped. Certainly not in the OT or the NT. I did a search and found one
place where it comes close perhaps. Daniel falls down before Gabriel,
perhaps in a dead faint, and then:
"Now, as he (Gabriel) was speaking with me (Daniel), I was in a deep
sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me, and stood me
upright. " -- Dan 8:18 (NKJ)
Nowhere in the Bible do angels let humans worship them. The only places in
the Bible where the worship of angels is encouraged is as found below:
"Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and
showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said
to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and
worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is
written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall
serve.' " "-- Mat 4:18-0 (NKJ)
The most likely place Jesus is quoting from is Deuteronomy 6:13. From read-
ing how Satan tempted Jesus, it sounds like Satan approached Jesus as an
angel from God. Why didn't Jesus fall for his scheme? It is worth noting
that Jesus frequently quoted from scripture. He did not return cunning with
cunning. Let that be our example.
Also, the Ten Commandments make it clear that only God should be worshipped:
" "You shall have no other gods before Me. "-- Exo 20:3 (NKJ)
Considering the way in which Jesus dealt with Satan I'd have to say that
even to be worshipped and Jesus qualifies.
* I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)
* An exact representation of God. (Heb. 1:3,4)
* He shone with the glory of God. (Matt. 17:2)
* All the fullness of the deity in Him bodily. (Col. 2:9)
* The image of the invisible God. (Col. 1:15)
* God manifest in flesh. (1 Tim. 3:16)
* Thought it not mockery to be equal with God. (Phil. 2:5,6)
* Call His name Immanuel. {Jehovah with us} (Isaiah 7:14)
* Emmanuel, which means God with us. (Matt. 1:22,23)
* The One and Only from the Father. (John 1:14)
* Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, everlasting Father. (Isaiah 9:6)
* King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Rev. 19:16)
He alone is to be worshiped.
Dave (David E. Buxton)
From the Silicon RainForest of the Northwest