narnia@ms.uky.edu (Stan Tackett) (04/02/91)
I'm putting on my asbestos suit for the flames I'll probably receive for this subject line, but I didn't know quite how to put it. About two years ago, both me and my girlfriend were saved. This was the best thing that could ever have happened to either of us; but the trouble is, I don't feel very saved, and I don't think she does either. It's as though we've almost completely turned away from Christ, and I *don't* like that feeling; I've had it one too many times. I know we haven't forgotten Him, but it sure feels like it sometimes. My question is, as the subject line states, (flame suit is now on), is it possible for a Christian to go to Hell? It seems as though that's where I'm headed (my fiance' too) if we don't do something soon; but our lives are so hectic right now, it doesn't seem like there's room for anything else. Any replies would be most helpful and GREATLY appreciated. In His Love, Stan -- Stan Tackett | Baldrick, you wouldn't know a subtle plan if it narnia@ms.uky.edu | painted itself purple and danced naked on top of Mr. Spock's twin | a piano, singing "Subtle Plans Are Here Again!" [I don't see how a Christian (defined as someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior) could go to Hell. There is some debate as to whether a *former* Christian can go to Hell, i.e. whether it's possible for someone who was onced saved to become "unsaved". This has been the subject of discussion here recently, which I'm reluctant to restart. However I don't think anyone would say that someone who has committed their life to Christ would go to Hell simply because they don't feel very saved at the moment. Some random pieces of advice: You might find it helpful to read some biographies of Christians. You'll find that "dry" periods are a normal part of Christian experience. Part of faith is the ability to carry on even when you don't feel excited at the moment. I don't know what your experience of being saved was, but one general problem is with people for whom it is a very emotional experience, and who come to think of Christian faith as an emotion. While Christians certainly experience joy, it's not the goal of Christian life nor is it a continuous thing. One of the major points of C.S. Lewis' "Surprised by Joy" is that joy is something which you can't find by seeking it. It comes on you when you least expect it, while you're going about your real job, which is trying to live a Christ-like life. Most Christians find that they experience Christ when they are active in serving others, or in other Christian activities, such as worship. I really understand the problem of a hectic life. I have the same problem. I can only say that Christian experience says clearly that we *must* make time for prayer, worship, and reflection. You don't really get more done by skipping those spiritual maintenance functions that are needed to keep yourself operating correctly. I don't mean that you have to become a monk, or that you have to reserve huge amounts of time for religious activities. But the first question I'd ask of someone making the complaint you do (including myself -- this happens to me too) is whether you spend at least a few minutes each day reading the Bible, thinking about your life over the last few days, and praying. I believe that God can lead you to solutions to problems in your life over time, but not if you don't take time to listen. I hope I'm not being insulting here. This may be obvious to you, but it seems not to be to some people. The other obvious suggestion is that you should be involved in a church. This may take some experimentation. There are many ways of being Christian, and different types of church suit different people. If you're part of a group that tends to be emotional and you don't experience the Christian life that way, it could easily make you feel like there's something wrong with your Christian life. And visa versa. If you experience Christ in a way that leads you to shout hallelujah and roll in the aisles, my church would not meet your needs. --clh]
emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) (04/06/91)
>I'm putting on my asbestos suit for the flames I'll probably receive >for this subject line, but I didn't know quite how to put it. >About two years ago, both me and my girlfriend were saved. This was >the best thing that could ever have happened to either of us; but the >trouble is, I don't feel very saved, and I don't think she does either. >It's as though we've almost completely turned away from Christ, and I *don't* >like that feeling; I've had it one too many times. I know we haven't >forgotten Him, but it sure feels like it sometimes. > >My question is, as the subject line states, (flame suit is now on), is it >possible for a Christian to go to Hell? It seems as though that's where >I'm headed (my fiance' too) if we don't do something soon; but our lives are >so hectic right now, it doesn't seem like there's room for anything else. > >Any replies would be most helpful and GREATLY appreciated. > >In His Love, >Stan I understand your feelings, Stan. I think all believers can. Although you don't feel saved, it is important to remember feelings do not determine salvation. Salvation is based on what Jesus did FOR you as described in God's Word. But what about those feelings that say "I'm not saved"? Jesus likened our relationship with Him as a vine with branches. The branches are connected to the vine and received nourishment from the vine. Jesus likened us to the branches and Himself to the vine. I like to view the connection of the branches to the vine as the fellowship that we have with Jesus. In John 15, Jesus said that if the branch becomes disconnected from the vine, it withers and dries up. I liken that to our soul (e.g. feelings). As one avoids intimate prayer and reading and meditating on God's Word, the soul is like it is drying up. That's why Jesus said, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never leave hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty" (John 6:35). This is also echoed in the book of Isaiah: "Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost. Why spend money of what is not bread, and your labor on what does not satisfy? Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of fare. Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live." (Isaiah 55:1-3) The Lord's heartfelt desire for us is to see Him and depend upon Him as that source of delight for our souls. The central focus is not the feeling, but the Lord Himself. Over the last few weeks, it had seemed like I had become unable to be satisfied in my soul. The apartment had become hectic. Our cat had kittens about a month or so earlier and they were now starting to run around. The morning time, before work, is my usable time of communion with the Lord. However, with all that is going on, the distractions became strong and the interruptions seemed to turn my prayer and Bible reading into feelingless function. Finally, I decided to leave extra early and go to the church early in the morn- ing. I had it all to myself. It was quiet and it was just the Lord and I. I started doing this every day. After a few days, my passion for the Lord began to be rekindled. I became more and more aware of His presence and that voice of love. My soul began to feel satisfied once again. Another effect of being out of fellowship are wierd thoughts that become stronger, usually manifesting in doubts: doubts of one's salvation, doubts of God's favor and acceptance, doubts of God's willingness to answer prayer or to act on our behalf. The scenario is laid out in Ephesians 6, where Paul stresses that there is a battle against our soul. The weapons against us are described as flaming darts or arrows. Using the analogy of a warrior putting on armor, the details of the battle are described: First, the disturbing thoughts are revealed to be lies, for we are told to gird our loins with truth. The area these lies apply to are our salvation (for it says to put on the helmet of salvation), our right standing with God (for it says to put on the breastplate of righteousness), and our peace with God (for it says to shod our feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace). The lies are manifested in us in the form of doubts (for it is written to take up the shield of faith). It also gives the solution, and that is to take up the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. It is amazing how much this analogy reveals about our Christian life. Stan, God has given you all you need in Jesus. When you asked Jesus into your lives, you entered a covenant of grace. That is God's willingness and actual bestowing of goodness, favor, and blessing upon you not based upon what you deserve but upon what Jesus did for you. As you use the Word and prayer to realize how much God loves you and to understand all He did and does for you, you will begin to to have a renewed passion for Him and will *really* live. The Lord is YOUR shepherd and YOU shall not be in WANT. He shall make you to lie down in green pastures and shall lead you beside quiet, still waters. He shall restore your soul. We all share God's grace together. John Emery emery@tc.fluke.COM