[soc.religion.christian] Last moment

kroth@uunet.uu.net (Ken Roth) (04/02/91)

>I have always wondered about the passage concerning the robber
>on the cross who was saved right before he died. If this is
>possible, why should anyone be "saved" before the last moment?
>What I mean is, what is the incentive to be true to the Word if
>salvation can come at the last moment of life?

Well, who do you think has more enjoyment from life?  I have found that people
who are hedonistic and do whatever they want before they are saved are
miserable in life.  They have no goal and no guidelines for joy.  They seem to
believe that joy comes from freedom, but I have found that I must enjoy
slavery if the master is just and loving!

You can also argument that there will be more rewards in heaven, and believe
it or not, I think that there will be stratification of heaven (not levels,
just people who have a better time).  Those who have been Christians all their
lives will have the satisfaction that they have done the work of the master as
much as they could.  That is a great reward, and those who are saved just
before they die never have this joy.

Just some ideas from the flat-lands...

Peace to you all.


::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
kroth@wheaton.uucp | uunet!tellab5!wheaton!kroth || They call me Gryfalia   
"We believe, we believe, 'cause we felt it burning in our hearts"--77's
"He is no fool who loses what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) (04/03/91)

There has been a continuing discussion of why one "should" be "saved"
as soon as possible, rather than making a gesture on one's deathbed
(as if it were possible to plan to change an opinion at some future
date!).  In the course of this discussion, Ken Roth
commented --

In article <Apr.2.04.05.21.1991.20199@athos.rutgers.edu> wheaton!kroth@uunet.uu.net (Ken Roth) writes:

>Well, who do you think has more enjoyment from life?  I have found that people
>who are hedonistic and do whatever they want before they are saved are
>miserable in life.  They have no goal and no guidelines for joy.  They seem to
>believe that joy comes from freedom, but I have found that I must enjoy
>slavery if the master is just and loving!
>
>You can also argument that there will be more rewards in heaven, and believe
>it or not, I think that there will be stratification of heaven (not levels,
>just people who have a better time).  Those who have been Christians all their
>lives will have the satisfaction that they have done the work of the master as
>much as they could.  That is a great reward, and those who are saved just
>before they die never have this joy.

True enough, but only part of the answer.  Rather, if you like, that's the
answer from the *human* point of view.

From *God's* point of view, isn't there another answer?  God does not merely
want us TO BE SAVED, God also wants us TO DO SOMETHING in this world --
feed the lame, clothe the sick ;-)  -- there's a job to do, and God's people
to do it.

To orient all our thinking towards heaven, rather than to the world God made,
is to fall into a fundamental error: "spirit good, flesh bad", which is rather
unChristian.

As someone said earlier in the discussion: if we are saved we show it.
And I say, that's not a side effect, that's the PURPOSE of being saved.

CAR

jhpb@garage.att.com (Joseph H Buehler) (04/03/91)

In article <Apr.2.04.05.21.1991.20199@athos.rutgers.edu> wheaton!kroth@uunet.uu.net (Ken Roth) writes:

   You can also argument that there will be more rewards in heaven, and believe
   it or not, I think that there will be stratification of heaven (not levels,
   just people who have a better time).  Those who have been Christians all their
   lives will have the satisfaction that they have done the work of the master as
   much as they could.  That is a great reward, and those who are saved just
   before they die never have this joy.

Here is how an older sister of St. Therese of Lisieux explained it to
her when she was a child.  She was wondering how everyone could be happy
in Heaven when some obtained more glory from God than others.

Her sister put two glasses on the table, one bigger than the other.  She
filled both, then asked:  Which glass is fuller?

Her point was that everyone will be as happy as they are capable of
being.

MAS139@psuvm.psu.edu (04/04/91)

In article <Apr.3.02.38.50.1991.10265@athos.rutgers.edu>,
credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) says:
>
>From *God's* point of view, isn't there another answer?  God does not merely
>want us TO BE SAVED, God also wants us TO DO SOMETHING in this world --
>feed the lame, clothe the sick ;-)  -- there's a job to do, and God's people
>to do it.

      But i help those I can but still do not believe in God. God did
      not invent the Golden Rule.

>As someone said earlier in the discussion: if we are saved we show it.
>And I say, that's not a side effect, that's the PURPOSE of being saved.

      Why then do people assume I'm a Christian? Just because I don't
      drink, smoke, or live a life of wild parties and sex? Because if
      someone does me wrong that I just say "he does the wrong to himself,
      not to me." ? That's common sense stuff. You don't need to believe
      in God to live like that. It's easy.

matt

harling@pictel.uucp (Dan Harling) (04/14/91)

In article <Apr.4.00.55.08.1991.14878@athos.rutgers.edu>,
hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (matt ?) says:

> In article <Apr.3.02.38.50.1991.10265@athos.rutgers.edu>,
> credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) says:
>
> >As someone said earlier in the discussion: if we are saved we show it.
> >And I say, that's not a side effect, that's the PURPOSE of being saved.
>
> Why then do people assume I'm a Christian? Just because I don't
> drink, smoke, or live a life of wild parties and sex? Because if
> someone does me wrong that I just say "he does the wrong to himself,
> not to me." ? That's common sense stuff. You don't need to believe
> in God to live like that. It's easy.
>
> matt

I was brought up in a Christian home, but the church that my parents
brought me to every Sunday morning did not seem very important to me
until my high school years.  Before then, I felt very much like you do:
it does make sense to live that way, and I did.

One day (after my attention span had developed sufficiently), I started
paying a little more attention to what my pastor was talking about, and
I heard him explaining WHY the things I already believed in were true.
I spent a long time thinking about what I was hearing, and found that
it made sense.

I am glad that you have found this much of the truth; it seems we are
following the same path.  But I hope you will not be satisfied with
these answers without finding out what the questions are.

With love (and encouragement),
______________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling					PictureTel, Inc.
Rockport, MA						Peabody, MA

	Opinions expressed herein are mine, all mine!!!