sierra@cis.ohio-state.edu (German Sierra) (03/12/91)
Does anyone believe in the power of prayer? And how does someone go about achieving it? Sierra
geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen) (03/19/91)
Haven't seen any follow-ups yet, so here goes! sierra@cis.ohio-state.edu (German Sierra) writes: >Does anyone believe in the power of prayer? Yes. >And how does someone go about achieving it? Well, depending on what you mean here, it looks like you're seeking the wrong thing. Prayer isn't some magic genie to give us anything we want. And ``the power of prayer'' isn't something that *we* achieve. The power of prayer is simply the power of God. Prayer is simply how we relate to him. Prayer is more than asking for things. Much more. I don't spend all my time with my wife asking her for things, and neither should we spend all our time with God asking for things. Talk to him. Like he's right there with you (since he is). Remember, The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. James 5:16b You do not have, because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures. James 4:2d-3 So what should we ask for? Enough food to live (Mt. 6:11), forgiveness (I John 1:9), God's plan and kingdom and glory (Mt. 6:10, 6:33), whatever we may *need* (not want), and especially others (including what we need to be able to minister to them). Prayer isn't a magic potion to give you health, wealth and happiness. But it is a chance to communicate with the eternal, living God, and it's wonderful! -- Geoff Allen \ Since we live by the Spirit, uunet!pmafire!geoff \ let us keep in step with the Spirit. geoff@pmafire.inel.gov \ -- Gal. 5:25 (NIV)
johnw@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) (03/20/91)
In article <Mar.18.23.25.28.1991.28603@athos.rutgers.edu> geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen) writes: >Prayer is more than asking for things. Much more. I don't spend all my >time with my wife asking her for things, and neither should we spend all >our time with God asking for things. Talk to him. Like he's right there Why not pray for what we want? The worst God could do is answer no, and tell us why, or answer 'wait', which (given my impatience) is probably worse. John Warren "...Into the narrow lanes, I can't stumble or stay put." -Dylan
geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen) (03/30/91)
I said: >Prayer is more than asking for things. Much more. I don't spend all my >time with my wife asking her for things, and neither should we spend all >our time with God asking for things. Talk to him. Like he's right there Prompting johnw@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) to ask: >Why not pray for what we want? The worst God could do is answer no, and >tell us why, or answer 'wait', which (given my impatience) is probably worse. There's no problem with asking for things. My point was that that's not the whole point of prayer. God is not a giant vending machine that will give us what we want if we push the right buttons. Neither is He our magic genie. He is the Lord of the Universe, and we should be amazed that he even invites us into His presence. And when we consider that we are invited to come *boldly* into His presence, and He calls us friends, that is simply mind-boggling. I would hate to abuse that priveledge by spending all my time saying, ``Can I have this? Can I have these? Can I have one of those? I want that!'' (Not that that's what I'm saying you're doing. Just commenting on the tendency as fallen creatures to be more interested in a magic genie than in a living Lord.) -- Geoff Allen \ Since we live by the Spirit, uunet!pmafire!geoff \ let us keep in step with the Spirit. geoff@pmafire.inel.gov \ -- Gal. 5:25 (NIV)
cole@maverick.uswest.com (Cole Keirsey) (04/03/91)
Goeff said: >Prayer is more than asking for things. Much more. I don't spend all my >time with my wife asking her for things, and neither should we spend all >our time with God asking for things. Talk to him. Like he's right there Prompting John Warren to ask: >Why not pray for what we want? The worst God could do is answer no, and >tell us why, or answer 'wait', which (given my impatience) is probably worse. to which Geoff responded >There's no problem with asking for things. . . . >I would hate to abuse that priveledge by spending all my time saying, >``Can I have this? Can I have these? Can I have one of those? I want that!'' Also, consider the example of Jesus when he was tempted in the wilderness. Satan asked Jesus to pray that stones be turned into bread, and to throw himself from a steeple. Jesus responded that you should not tempt God. This story says to me that I shouldn't willfully put myself in danger or need, then expect God to spare me the consequences. In such a situation, I think God might see that my real need is to learn from my mistakes. Yes, God is right here with us, but we see him, as Paul says, through a glass darkly and not face to face. If I make a prayer that I don't sincerely think God will answer, isn't that prayer directed to my own dark, distorted image of God and not to God Himself? I would be concerned that a prayer like that would be a kind of idolotry -- worshipping a false image. Right now, I don't know God clearly as he really is. But it's wrong for me to make a prayer that assumes God is something I believe He isn't. C. C. Keirsey
johnw@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) (04/14/91)
In article <Apr.3.02.59.54.1991.10450@athos.rutgers.edu> cole@maverick.uswest.com (Cole Keirsey) writes: >Also, consider the example of Jesus when he was tempted in the >wilderness. Satan asked Jesus to pray that stones be turned into bread, >and to throw himself from a steeple. Jesus responded that you should >not tempt God. > >This story says to me that I shouldn't willfully put myself in danger or >need, then expect God to spare me the consequences. In such a >situation, I think God might see that my real need is to learn from my >mistakes. > I see your point. And I agree with it up to a point. However, if our motives are for God's glory and for God's purposes in history and not our own (and only God knows the ratio of selfish motives to God centered motives in our hearts) then it is perfectly appropriate, at times, to put yourself in danger and expect God to bail you out. That's the nature of a trusting faith. The balance here is that you shouldn't put yourself in danger with no external purpose in mind other than to prove to yourself whether God will bail you out or not. In that case, God will probably let you learn from your mistakes, the hard way. Look at Gideon's band of 300 (in Judges 7, I think). They were fighting against 10's of thousands of Midianites. When these Israelites stood on the hill at night with their lamps covered, they were still safe, and they could still bail out. But when they took the covers off, then they HAD to trust in God. God honored that trust, and not a one of them died. And the Israelites drove the Midianites out of their hair. In short, Psalm 91 still applies to the people of faith. > >C. C. Keirsey John Warren