ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) (04/05/91)
Many people are puzzled by the number 666 mentioned in Revelation 13:18.
Rev. 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him who has (1)understanding calculate the (2)number
of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
and sixty-six.
(1) Gk. mind.
(2) "The number of the beast" is "the number of a man." This man is Caesar
nero, who will also be the coming Antichrist. The number represented by the
letters of the name Caesar nero in Hebrew is 666 as follows:
Greek Hebrew Greek Hebrew
(The hebrew letters
are wriitten on the
page in front of me
but are not on my
terminal.)
Ne Looks like iota 50 Kai Looks like 100
crossed like a T capital P
R Upsidedown 200 Sa Looks like 60
reversed L capital D
O half crossed 6 R Upsidedown 200
small cap. T reversed L
N Capital J 50
--- ---
N epsi. rho omega nu = 306 Kappa alpha iota sigma rho 360 = 666
Because the book of Revelation was written during the time of the Roman
Empire, John did not mention the name of Nero, but indicated it with a number.
Therefore, there is the need of "wisdom" to understand it.
Revelation 17:8
The beast (1)whom you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the
abyss and go into destruction. And they who dwell on the earth, whose names
have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life,
shall marvel when they see the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall
be present.
(1) "The beast," who is Antichrist, "was" in the person of Caesar Nero before
John wrote Revelation. he "is not" at the time of John's writing, because
Nero had dies by that time. he "is about to come up out of the abyss."
This implies that nero's spirit is now in the abyss and is about to emerge
from it to take possession of the body of the slain and resurrected Antichrist,
as indicated in Rev. 13:3. He "is about to go into destruction." This
indicates that Antichrist will perish, as described in Rev. 19:20 and 20.10.
Revelation 13:3
And (1)one of his heads was as if it had been slain to death, and his death
stroke was healed. And the whole worl marveled after the beast.
(1) "one of his heads" is one of the Caesars who will be "slain" and
resurrected. That "his death stroke was healed" means that he will be
resurrected from death. Because of this "the whole world marveled after
him."
Revelation 17:10
And are (1)seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has yet to come;
and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
(1) The "seven kings" are the seven Caesars of the Roman Empire. The first
"five have fallen," i.e., they have died unnaturally (Judg. 3:25; 2 Sam.
1:10, 25, 27). They are Julius Caesar, Tiberius, Calgula, Claudius, and Nero,
all of whom were either murdered or committed suicide before John wrote this
book. The sixth "one," Domitian, who was also murdered, was living when this
book was written; therefore it is said of him that he "is." The other, the
seventh, who will be Antichrist, had "not yet come" at that time. "When he
comes he must remain a little while" and will be slain and resurrected with the
spirit of the fifth, who is Nero, to be the eighth.
Revelation 17:11
And the beast who was, and is not, he (1)also is the eighth, and is of the
seven, and goes into destruction.
(1) Antichrist will be the coming seventh Caesar. But he "also is the eighth."
According to Rev. 13:3, Antichrist will be slain and resurrected. In that
resurrection, the spirit of Nero (the fifth caesar) which comes up out of the
abyss, will animate the dead body of the seventh Caesar, Antichrist. This
one, composed of the fifth and seventh Caesars, is the eighth. Hence, he
"is of the seven." It is no wonder people marvel at the sight of such an
extraordinary being (v. 17:8).
Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which you saw are (1)ten kings, who have not yet received
a kingdom, but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast.
(1) "Ten kings" will be raised up before the great tribulation in the revived
Roman Empire. They will be one with Antichrist in opposing God and persecuting
His people--the Jews and the believers. These ten kings are likened to the
ten toes of the great image seen by nebuchadnezzar in his dream (Dan. 2:42).
They will submit themselves and their kingdoms to Antichrist (v. 17:17).
-----
Robert W. Johnson
Computer center, The University of Turku, Turku Finland
robert@kontu.utu.fi (InterNet)
robert@firien.bitnet (BITNET)
The preceeding is my opinion and may not express the opinion of my employer
and furthermore has nothing to do with my employment. st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) (04/06/91)
Robert Johnson in his assignment of the number 666 to Nero ignores a few facts. Chief among them is since Revelation was written in the 90's A.D., Nero was already dead by this time and Domitian was emperor. Though both of these persecuted Christians, their persecution was small compared to the persecution which came in the early 300's AD. Steve Timm
tom@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht) (04/09/91)
In article <Apr.6.02.46.06.1991.4041@athos.rutgers.edu> st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: >Robert Johnson in his assignment of the number 666 to Nero ignores >a few facts. Chief among them is since Revelation was written in the 90's ^^^^^^^^^ >A.D., Nero was already dead by this time and Domitian was emperor. This is not a fact of history, but an opinion held by many. There are also many who hold that Revelation was written during the reign of Nero. And there are good reasons for holding that opinion, based on both internal and external evidence. >Though both of these persecuted Christians, their persecution was small >compared to the persecution which came in the early 300's AD. Although it is usually given as one of the reasons for the Domitian date, there is little historical evidence to suggest that Christians experienced any significant persecution during his reign. Certainly nothing on the scale of what they underwent during Nero's time, nor the sort of persecution that is being described in Revelation. Here are my thoughts on the subject of Revelation 13. Some of them track what Robert wrote. The Beast from the Sea (Rev. 13:1-8) Technically speaking, the term "antichrist" only occurs in the epistles of John. In those instances, "antichrist" is used of one who is apostate from the religion of the Bible. They have left the worship of the true God to follow after their own desires, and to draw others into believing their deadly error (cf. I John 2:18ff). So while some folks may refer to the sea beast as the antichrist, they are not necessarily the same from John perspective. This may the cause for some confusion in this matter. Revelation is sort of like one of those posters you might see for sale in airport concessions; the ones that are labeled "A <blank>'s eye view of the World." Where <blank> is replaced by the city of choice. The city in question figures in most of the picture, with the outlying suburbs less prominent. Finally, way out in the distance you might catch a glimpse of an ocean, or another, much larger city, although dwarfed by the city you're in. John was concerned about showing the world as it exists from the perspective of the New Covenant city of God, the Church. Jesus Christ and His people are the key figures in this picture. Everyone else is a bit player, even the powerful Roman empire. "The Beast from the Sea" is the symbolic description of this bit player, Rome. If you were to stand in Judea or Asia Minor and look west, you would be confronted by Rome, the powerful nation that controlled most of the known world of that day. It is the city that lies across the sea, and the symbol of a beast rising up out of the sea is quite appropriate. What does the sea represent? We are told in the book that the waters of the sea represent peoples, nations, etc (17:15). Rome was the nation that had political, economic and social control over the peoples of the earth; and especially the land of Judea, the center of the worship of the true and living God. The Beast is pictured as a leopard, a bear and a lion; the three beasts from Daniel's vision of the kingdoms of the earth. (Dan. 7) In that vision the three beasts represent the three powerful kingdoms that would precede the appearance of the kingdom of God. John roles those three beasts into the one final beast, Rome, that was to be the last great kingdom prior to the Messiah's kingdom. We know from history that the decline of Rome can be directly traced to excesses of the Caesars of the 1st Christian century. The Beast from the Land (Rev. 13:11-15) While the KJV translates the Greek as "earth," I believe the vision is of the Beast rising from the Land. In this case the land refers to Israel. The land beast, also referred to as the false prophet (16:13), is the one who does the bidding of the sea beast, just as the sea beast does the bidding of the dragon. The activity of the land beast involves "signs and wonders, fire coming down from heaven." You might recall the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 where He tells His disciples that just before the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome, false Christs and false prophets would arise in the land in an attempt to deceive the people of God. In John's vision the land beast, the once holy nation of God, has become the spiritual vice-regent of the Roman sea beast. The relationship between Israel and Rome was well known by the early church. In the gospels we are told that as a result of their interaction over the crucifixion of Jesus, Pilate the Roman and Herod the Jew became good friends (Luke 23:12). And again: The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, BOTH HEROD, AND PONTIUS PILATE, WITH THE GENTILES, AND THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, WERE GATHERED TOGETHER, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word. (Acts 4:26-29) Together the beast and false prophet are doing the work of the dragon, Satan. They are also unwillingly doing the work of God as well. Rather than killing the infant church, the persecution only made them stronger and more powerful in bringing the gospel. By the strengthening action of adversity, Christianity became a truly universal religion as Our Lord intended (Matt. 28:18ff). The Mark of the Beast (Rev. 13:16-18) This is one of the most interpreted symbols in the entire Bible. There are more ideas as to what is the mark of the beast than I can mention in this limited space, everything from ultaviolet tatoos of the number "666" on hands and foreheads to ATM cards. Again, I believe that if we want to properly understand the symbol we must look at it from the perspective of the 1st century Christian. First of all I believe the mark is symbolic. If you trace the concept through the OT you will see that a mark signifies ownership, or one who is called out for a particular task. The high priest, we are told, carried the words "holy to the Lord" engraved on a plate on his forehead (Ex. 28:36). It was to be a reminder that God's people are set apart as a holy kingdom of priests (Ex. 19:6). You might also recall the words of the Shema recorded in Deuteronomy 6:4-9: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. AND THOU SHALT BIND THEM FOR A SIGN UPON THINE HAND, AND THEY SHALL BE AS FRONTLETS BETWEEN THINE EYES. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. The symbolism of phylacteries was to remind the Jew that the commandments of God were to be constantly before him. He had a special calling, and the sign was a reminder of that calling. In the Revelation picture, those who follow after the beast and the false prophet receive a mark. Just as the child of God has the mark of God on his hand and forehead, so too the child of the devil has his mark. Here we see the false prophet causing the mark of the beast to be propagated among the inhabitants of the land. Verse 18 gives us a clue to the fact that the symbol has coded information. Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty six. The number is the number of a man. If the beast is Rome, then the number must refer somehow to "a man" associated with Rome. Why six hundred and sixty six? As you may know, both Greek and Hebrew use letters from their alphabets to represent numbers, whereas in the Roman alphabet we use today, we borrow symbols from the Arabic alphabet to represent our numbers. Well, to make a long story short, "666" is the Greek rendering of the Hebrew form of Nero Caesar, Neron Kaser. You might ask, "Why Hebrew to Greek? Isn't that a bit artificial?" Remember, John was writing to Christians of Jewish background or at least very familiar with Judaism. Many commentators have remarked on the fact that even though Revelation is written in Greek it reflects a very Hebrew way of thinking. Some even believe that it may have been written first in Aramaic or Hebrew and later translated to Greek. You might also note that in some manuscripts of Revelation, instead of "666" we find "616." A variant spelling of the Hebrew for Nero's name would offer an explanation for this alteration. -- Tom Albrecht
janski@vipunen.hut.fi (Janne Olavi Salmi) (04/10/91)
In article <Apr.5.03.18.36.1991.9611@athos.rutgers.edu> ROBERT@kontu.utu.fi (Robert W. Johnson) writes:
Many people are puzzled by the number 666 mentioned in Revelation 13:18.
Yet its meaning is so simply stated in the verse below.
Rev. 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him who has (1)understanding calculate the (2)number
of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
and sixty-six.
The verse above is not about Nero, not about the pope, it is about the
beast, the Antichrist, who will appear on the Earth only after the
rapture and will rule over ten countries for seven years. Oh yes, and
Robert, you asked some time ago about this Antichrist and said you'd
like to follow his actions. Well, he comes from Syria(sp?), says the
Bible. However, he will not come before the Church has been taken
away, so I'd not be so eager to kep eye on him, I'd rather be outta
here.
The Revelation must be read as it is. Unfortunately, I don't have my
bible with me here, so I can't state chapters and verses, but there is
a chronological order of events there.
Let us all be ready to go when the rapture comes! I surely don't want
to be here when the tribulations come.
-Janne
Janne.Salmi@hut.fi
--
**************************************************************************
* Janne Salmi / "Money, I need more money, just a *
* / little more money, yeah, I need more *
* Email:janski@niksula.hut.fi / money" -Extreme *
**************************************************************************billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) (04/14/91)
In article <Apr.10.04.09.04.1991.10942@athos.rutgers.edu> janski@vipunen.hut.fi (Janne Olavi Salmi) writes: > > Rev. 13:18 > Here is wisdom. Let him who has (1)understanding calculate the (2)number > of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred > and sixty-six. Yes, but I've recently come to wonder whether the basic concept that Robert employed - Gematriot - is not after all the correct interpretation of this verse. >like to follow his actions. Well, he comes from Syria(sp?), says the Another thing which has crossed my mind, where ever he comes from, will he be Jewish? I may be mistaken, but I believe that scripture teaches that some Jews will accept him as the Messiah. How can they accept the AnitChrist as Messiah if he in not Jewish? Many believe that the 10 toes of Daniel refer to the European Common Market Unification (1992?). What are the chances that they will have a Syrian as the leader?
daly@ddtisvr.uucp (Kathy Daly) (04/14/91)
Editing two previous postings I find the English translation favoured in this discussion: >Verse 18 gives us a clue to the fact that the symbol has coded information. > > Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count* the number of the > beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred and > sixty six. >-- >Tom Albrecht > * calculate >----- >Robert W. Johnson But I remember another translation (from Scofield's KJV, i believe): "The name of the beast is a number, and the number of the beast is 666." I have my own pet theory. The author of Revelation was being shown a vision of the future. However the images reached his brain, they probably didn't come with footnotes. He literally saw the beast and his name in writing, possibly on a billboard or superimposed like on a TV show. (Humor me for a while.) But he was viewing it in a language that hadn't existed in his lifetime, so he interpreted the font into the closest looking characters he could come up with. It probably wasn't a name like any he ever heard, and maybe the series of pseudo-letters wasn't even pronouncable. So he records, "Look, it doesn't make sense that the beast is known by a number and not a name, but that's how it looked to me. The name of the beast IS a number." So, if we took all the characters in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and any other typeface the visionary would have recognized, and we maybe stylize the script or printing, would any of those glyphs resemble any modern language characters? And could you combine them to form what to us would read as a name or title? It's my own pet theory. I was wondering if anyone has approached the subject of prophetic visions from this angle. I did once read a book that supposed the prophets got a vision of helicopters and reported having seen giant locusts with human faces. (uh, I think the title was something about UFOs or flying saucers in the Bible.) just an exercise in lateral creative thinking. -- Kathy E.F.Daly -- "A bad .signature is better than no .signature at all" (technically) Camex,Inc. pays me, but I work for DuPont Design Technologies . . and neither is liable nor responsible for anything I say or do here. ## under construction ## hard hat required ## no loitering or spitting ##
daly@ddtisvr.uucp (Kathy Daly) (04/17/91)
Can I follow up on my own post?
> >"The name of the beast is a number, and the number of the beast is 666."
I looked thru all my bibles at home and couldn't find the verse ever
worded like that. I have no idea why I remember the phrase that way.
So I might now be more receptive to the idea of the number being something
to calculate for a name in code.
But what about the author saying 'let him who has wisdom figure it out...'
Did the author himself perhaps not understand?
I still would like to see the *original* hard-copy of the text. Maybe
the way in which the actual characters were written (thick,thin,sized)
is the real clue. (And maybe there's doodles in the margin :-).
--
Kathy E.F.Daly -- "A bad .signature is better than no .signature at all"
(technically) Camex,Inc. pays me, but I work for DuPont Design Technologies
. . and neither is liable nor responsible for anything I say or do here.
## under construction ## hard hat required ## no loitering or spitting ##
[You were right the first time. Take a look at Rev 13:17-18. 17
talks about the number of its name, and 18 says it is the number of
a person. --clh]johnw@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Warren) (04/17/91)
In article <Apr.6.02.46.06.1991.4041@athos.rutgers.edu> st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: >Robert Johnson in his assignment of the number 666 to Nero ignores >a few facts. Chief among them is since Revelation was written in the 90's >A.D., Nero was already dead by this time and Domitian was emperor. > >Steve Timm Not true. If you read on, you'll see that he states these facts. I found the article to be very interesting, but I was taught that the 7 kings refer to the kingdoms of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon (or Neo-Babylon), Persia, Greece, Rome, and Antichrist's kingdom (which has yet to come). These were all kingdoms which oppressed Israel and/or Judah. And the same spirit that inhabited Alexander the Great (the fifth king, the head that was 'wounded to death'-- Rev. 13, i think) will inhabit Antichrist. John Warren "In the midst of the war, he offered us peace. He came like a lover from out of the East, With the face of an angel and the heart of a Beast, His intentions were six-sixty-six." -- Larry Norman
bjstaff@zds-ux.zds.com (Brad Staff) (04/25/91)
>The Beast is pictured as a leopard, a bear and a lion; the three beasts >from Daniel's vision of the kingdoms of the earth. (Dan. 7) In that >vision the three beasts represent the three powerful kingdoms that would >precede the appearance of the kingdom of God. John roles those three >beasts into the one final beast, Rome, that was to be the last great >kingdom prior to the Messiah's kingdom. We know from history that the >decline of Rome can be directly traced to excesses of the Caesars of the >1st Christian century. The Beast out of the Sea resembles the Dragon from Revelation 12. Dragon Beast ====== ===== 7 heads 7 heads 10 horns 10 horns 7 crowns 10 crowns The Beast out of the Sea also resembles the four beasts from Daniel 7. lion appearance the first beast bear appearance the second beast leopard appearance the third beast ten horns the fourth beast If John was trying to depict the Roman empire, he could have simply reused the standard symbol in Daniel 7. I think John was depicting a yet-future Satanic empire. Regards, Brad Staff bjstaff@zds-ux.zds.com
bjstaff@zds-ux.zds.com (Brad Staff) (04/25/91)
>The verse above is not about Nero, not about the pope, it is about the >beast, the Antichrist, who will appear on the Earth only after the >rapture and will rule over ten countries for seven years. Could someone please explain the biblical basis for a belief in a pre-tribulation rapture? >Oh yes, and >Robert, you asked some time ago about this Antichrist and said you'd >like to follow his actions. Well, he comes from Syria(sp?), says the >Bible. Do you base this belief on Daniel 11:40-45? I interpret Daniel 11:40 (NIV) as follows: "At the time of the end the king of the South [Egypt] will engage him [the Antichrist] in battle, and the king of the North [Syria] will storm out against him [the Antichrist] with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He [the Antichrist] will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood." I don't know where the Antichrist comes from, but I don't believe he comes from Syria. Regards, Brad Staff bjstaff@zds-ux.zds.com