kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) (04/06/91)
Hey, don't go out too late tonight (or forget to set your VCRs) because you'll miss a filmed exorcism on 20/20 tonight on ABC at 10pm. I heard about it on NPR earlier this week and saw a sneak preview on ABC news this morning. The priest they interviewed gave some of the criteria for being possessed. For those of you who never saw The Exorcist, this includes the possessed person speaking in languages never studied and clairvoyance. This ought to be a fun show, eh?! Maybe they'll ask the possessing demon about Buckwheat and how he's doing these days :-). -- | Victor Kan | I speak only for myself. | *** | Data General Corporation | Edo emacibus, ergo sum. | **** | 62 T.W. Alexander Drive | Columbia Lions Win, 8 October 1988 for | **** %%%% | RTP, NC 27709 | a record of 1-44. Way to go, Lions! | *** %%%
bobv@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Bob Vaughan) (04/10/91)
In soc.religion.christian, kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) writes:
The priest they interviewed gave some of the criteria for being
possessed. For those of you who never saw The Exorcist, this includes
the possessed person speaking in languages never studied and
clairvoyance. This ought to be a fun show, eh?! Maybe they'll ask
the possessing demon about Buckwheat and how he's doing these days
:-).
I was able to watch this program and found it very interesting. I have a
few observations I thought I'd share and see what other viewers thought.
The whole topic was covered from a very Catholic perspective (understandibly).
No mention was given that all Christians have the power to cast out demons (as
oppossed to just priests or even specialist priest like "Father A."). Much
of the exorcism centered around the "age old Catholic ritual" again not mention-
ing that no special text or ritual needs to be followed (obviously you have to
use the name of Jesus etc...).
I also found it interesting that they implied that this is a fairly recent
thing after centuries of non-practise. Perhaps this is true in the Catholic
church, but outside the Catholic church it has been constantly going on for
a long time.
I had never heard that levitation was a common occurence so much so that the
RC church uses it as one of their four criteria in determining if a person is
demon possessed. Are there any scriptural examples of this?
Those things aside, I thought the amount of investigation and preparation was
very impressive. These people knew what they were doing. I found it interest-
ing that the demon(s) often try to trick the exorcist into thinking they've
succeeded by temporarily giving control back to the possessed person. Father
A. didn't get fooled.
What do other people think?
Bob3at@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Raphael Martelles) (04/14/91)
In article <Apr.10.04.22.09.1991.11083@athos.rutgers.edu> bobv@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Bob Vaughan) writes: >In soc.religion.christian, kan@bugs-bunny.rtp.dg.com (Victor Kan) writes: > > The priest they interviewed gave some of the criteria for being > possessed. For those of you who never saw The Exorcist, this includes > the possessed person speaking in languages never studied and > clairvoyance. This ought to be a fun show, eh?! Maybe they'll ask > the possessing demon about Buckwheat and how he's doing these days > :-). > Did anyone happen to videotape this? I didn't get a chance to se it and I'd really like a copy. If someone could send me one, or at least reply by e-mail about my mailing address, I'll be happy to cover postage and the cost of making a copy, along with whatever other compensation you might find necessary. My e-mail address is 3at@sage.cc.purdue.edu, and if someone would reply by e-mail, I'll be happy to give my mailing address. Thanks very much. Raph -- Raphael Dominic Martelles <>< 3at@sage.cc.purdue.edu IX0YE "Christianity isn't a crutch, it's a stretcher. You can't even hobble into heaven!"
jhpb@garage.att.com (Joseph H Buehler) (04/14/91)
In article <Apr.10.04.22.09.1991.11083@athos.rutgers.edu> bobv@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Bob Vaughan) writes:
I also found it interesting that they implied that this is a fairly recent
thing after centuries of non-practise. Perhaps this is true in the Catholic
church, but outside the Catholic church it has been constantly going on for
a long time.
I didn't see the show, so can't comment in detail on what they said.
I've read accounts of several exorcisms in this century, however, all in
the U.S., performed by Catholic priests.
I had never heard that levitation was a common occurence so much so that the
RC church uses it as one of their four criteria in determining if a person is
demon possessed. Are there any scriptural examples of this?
Does anyone have a copy of the Roman ritual? It has the major signs in
the back. In an account of an exorcism that happened in the Midwest in
the 1920's or so, the person being exorcised flew off the bed up to the
ceiling.
One of the more somber things that occurs to me on this subject is that
there are priests who specialize in this. The drain on them, from
coming into such close contact with such tremendous evil, must be
tremendous.igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten) (04/14/91)
In article <Apr.10.04.22.09.1991.11083@athos.rutgers.edu> bobv@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Bob Vaughan) writes: > I had never heard that levitation was a common occurence so much so that the > RC church uses it as one of their four criteria in determining if a person is > demon possessed. Are there any scriptural examples of this? Are there any documented examples of this? ian
burt@sequent.uucp (Burton Keeble) (04/17/91)
[Bob Vaughan commented on a Nightline show about exorcism. --clh] Nightline. There was nothing in the demonstration that would convert the skeptic, or at least persuade the skeptic that deamon possession was at issue. The only thing that I witnessed which was somewhat eerie was the girl's voice when one of the "deamons" (there were supposed to be 10) spoke. The girl was on heavy medication before the event, and after the event, as part of her psychological treatment. She claims to have been rid of the deamons, but her credibility is suspect because of her disorder. There was a good controversy on Nightline between two Catholic priests. One had assisted at the event; the other was the President of Notre Dame. The latter gave very good reasons why the performance did a great disservice to the church (which is famous for a lot of hocus pocus -apparitions, bleeding statues, and the like). The attending priest also made a good statement, quoting the author of the "Song of Bernadette": For the non-believer, no explaination is possible; for the believer, no explaination is necessary." Frankly, I was really disappointed. I think ABC was using sensationalism to capture a viewer rating. The performance wasn't any more convincing than some of the spiritual healings of witchdoctors that I have viewed on tv documentaries. -burt Reply to burt@sequent.sequent.com
kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) (04/29/91)
In article <Apr.13.22.49.41.1991.11783@athos.rutgers.edu> jhpb@garage.att.com (Joseph H Buehler) writes: > >One of the more somber things that occurs to me on this subject is that >there are priests who specialize in this. The drain on them, from >coming into such close contact with such tremendous evil, must be >tremendous. A few years ago, I asked one of the priests at the Catholic Center here about exorcism. What followed was what I consider one of the most fascinating conversations I ever had. The priest I had talked to said that the movie "the Exorcist" was based on a real occurance. He also said that while any priest has the power to exorcize demons, the process is so draining that the priests that the Church normally allows to perform the ritual are *selected* for having (essentially) "demonstrated a holiness above and beyond the call of duty" Prior to encountering the possessed person, *everybody* who is to be involved in the exorcism, including clearly the priest(s) involved, is asked to confess to absolutely anything they can possibly think of that they have done/thought/not done in the past that could be held against them as sin. This is because the entity inside the person who is possessed will **know** absolutely **EVERYTHING** about the people then conduct the exorcism ... and even after such an extensive confessional "debriefing"/accounting of ones past sins ... the exorcism is often a terribly humiliating experience for those involved in the ritual. So as a friend of mine who reads the net put it ... the Church only allows "the few, the HUMBLE" to be become "the EXORCISTS" :-) dennis kriz@skat.usc.edu
jhpb@garage.att.com (Joseph H Buehler) (05/03/91)
In article <Apr.28.18.27.16.1991.20284@athos.rutgers.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes:
Prior to encountering the possessed person, *everybody* who is to be
involved in the exorcism, including clearly the priest(s) involved,
is asked to confess to absolutely anything they can possibly think
of that they have done/thought/not done in the past that could be
held against them as sin. This is because the entity inside the
person who is possessed will **know** absolutely **EVERYTHING**
about the people then conduct the exorcism ... and even after such
an extensive confessional "debriefing"/accounting of ones past sins
... the exorcism is often a terribly humiliating experience for those
involved in the ritual.
I've heard as much myself. One of the things that struck me in a book I
read about several exorcisms was the humility of one of the priests
involved. He had done things when he was young that were a little
shocking to me. But he sort of seemed to shrug it off, as if to say,
"yes, indeed, that's *exactly* what I would do all the time without the
grace of Christ."
I sometimes suggest to my friends that we should revive public
confession, as the early Church did it. It would help bring back a
little known virtue, perhaps -- humility.
Of course, as long as I don't have to go first!