[soc.religion.christian] HEB 6:4-9 STUDY

jhaynes@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (05/11/91)

~9Heb 6:4-9 Study

 We need to test everything we hear on a teaching from the Word of God.  I 
heard a teaching on the passage in Hebrews that you could loose your 
salvation and they used this passage to prove it.  So I read the scriptures for myself and what you are about to read is what took place to my best recollection.

Heb 6:4-6  4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened,
           who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy
           Spirit,
           5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the
           powers of the coming age,
           6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because
           to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again
           and subjecting him to public disgrace. (NIV)

 I believed the Holy Spirit had given me insight in that the person
here would not be restored to a repented state in order to do good works.
 
Exodus 17:1-7  1 The whole Israelite community set out from the Desert of
               Sin, traveling from place to place as the LORD commanded.
               They camped at Rephidim, but there was no water for the
               people to drink.
               2 So they quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water to
               Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your
               hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go.
               6 I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb.
               Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the
               people to drink." So Moses did this in the sight of the
               elders of Israel.
               7 And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the
               Israelites quarreled and because they tested the LORD
               saying, "Is the LORD among us or not?" (NIV)

 This is the first account of where Moses was instructed to bring water from
the rock by striking the rock.  Note that they were in the Desert of Sin.
Let's take a look at the second account.

Numbers 20:1-13  1 In the first month the whole Israelite community
                 arrived at the Desert of Zin, and they stayed at Kadesh.
                 There Miriam died and was buried.
                 2 Now there was no water for the community, and the
                 people gathered in opposition to Moses and Aaron.
                 3 They quarreled with Moses and said, "If only we had
                 died when our brothers fell dead before the LORD!
                 4 Why did you bring the LORD's community into this
                 desert, that we and our livestock should die here?
                 5 Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to this terrible
                 place? It has no grain or figs, grapevines or
                 pomegranates. And there is no water to drink!"
                 6 Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance
                 to the Tent of Meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of
                 the LORD appeared to them.
                 7 The LORD said to Moses,
                 8 "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather
                 the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their
                 eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water
                 out of the rock for the community so they and their
                 livestock can drink."
                 9 So Moses took the staff from the LORD's presence, just
                 as he commanded him.
                 10 He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of
                 the rock and Moses said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must
                 we bring you water out of this rock?"
                 11 Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice
                 with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and
                 their livestock drank.
                 12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did
                 not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of
                 the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the
                 land I give them."
                 13 These were the waters of Meribah, where the Israelites
                 quarreled with the LORD and where he showed himself holy
                 among them. (NIV)

  Here the people were in the Desert of Zin and Moses was instructed to
 speak to the rock.  But in his anger he struck the rock and brought the
 judgment of God upon him.  The blessing of the rock still flowed out
 because the blessings from God are not restricted to the obedience of our
 teachers.  The elder told me that this sounded good but the passage of
 scripture in Hebrews was not talking about Moses but about someone loosing
 their salvation.  Well, I know that I had been wrong before so I continued
 to pray and ask God to guide me into the truth of this matter.  I read the
 passage again and saw that it did speak of salvation in the following
 verses.

 Heb 6:7-9  7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that
            produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives
            the blessing of God.
            8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and
            is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
            9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are
            confident of better things in your case-- things that accompany
            salvation. (NIV)

 Looking at this passage it does not pertain to things that accomplish
salvation but things that accompany it.  So I looked further into the
things that accompany salvation.  I found that good works are to accompany
salvation.

2 Timothy 2:20-21 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold
                  and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for
                  noble purposes and some for ignoble.
                  21 If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be
                  an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to
                  the Master and prepared to do any good work. (NIV)

 Moses, by far, was useful for noble purposes for he was God's instrument to
lead the Israelites out of Egypt and it was also through him that the Mt.
Sinai covenant was given.  With these thoughts in mind, I took my findings
to a deacon of another church, some one I had worked with.  He told me
that the accounts in Exodus and Numbers were the same account and that the
Desert of Sin and Zin were the same desert.  Again, not trying to push the
issue, I went back to the Lord in prayer and asked for guidance to find
the truth.  It was not long after this while in my quiet time reading the
Bible and praying, the scriptures revealed to me that the desert of Sin and
Zin were two different locations.

Numbers 33:11-12 11 They left the Red Sea and camped in the Desert of
                 Sin.
                 12 They left the Desert of Sin and camped at Dophkah.
                 (NIV)
Numbers 33:36-37 36 They left Ezion Geber and camped at Kadesh, in the
                 Desert of Zin.
                 37 They left Kadesh and camped at Mount Hor, on the
                 border of Edom. (NIV)

 Wow!  I took all of this to my pastor at that time and showed him
what my findings were.  But he was in agreement with the elder that the
passage of Hebrews was talking about someone loosing their salvation and
that the rock in the desert was not Christ.  Well, being fully aware that I
could be wrong and trying to fit the scriptures to what I thought was
right, I went again to the Lord in prayer and asked for forgiveness for
trying to push an issue.  But to my surprise, the Lord didn't leave
me in the dark.  Through scriptures He revealed to me that the rock was
none other than Christ.

1 Cor 10:1-4  1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact,
              brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and
              that they all passed through the sea.
              2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the
              sea.
              3 They all ate the same spiritual food
              4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from
              the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was
              Christ. (NIV)

 Rest assured God does answer prayer and will reveal the truth through His
word as we continue to read it.  Just to end this study on Hebrews 6:4-9,
Moses in his anger did crucify Christ all over again by striking the rock
the second time and was no longer fit to do the noble task of leading God's
people into the promise land.  Moses paid the price for his sin with his
own life.

Deut 32:48-52 48 On that same day the LORD told Moses,
              49 "Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab,
              across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving
              the Israelites as their own possession.
              50 There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die
              and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron
              died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people.
              51 This is because both of you broke faith with me in the
              presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh
              in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my
              holiness among the Israelites.
              52 Therefore, you will see the land only from a distance;
              you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of
              Israel." (NIV)

 Moses did not lose his salvation for I doubt Jesus would have been
transfigured with a soul bound for hell.

Matt 17:1-5  1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John
             the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by
             themselves.
             2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like
             the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
             3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah,
             talking with Jesus.
             4 Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here.
             If you wish, I will put up three shelters-- one for you, one
             for Moses and one for Elijah."
             5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them,
             and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love;
             with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" (NIV)

 If your teaching is correct it will always be reinforced by other
scriptures for the Bible is its own best commentary.  This study on Moses
shed light for me on another verse in Jude.

Jude 1:9   9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with
           the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a
           slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke
           you!" (NIV)

 Satan disputed over the body of Moses because Moses was never brought
back to repentance and died in sin.  Satan believes that if he can cause
us to sin he still has ownership on us.  We need to be careful not to let
Satan get a foothold on us for just in the case of Moses it ended his
life.  God shows no favoritism.  We who belong to Him are subjected to His
discipline.

Eph 4:25-28 25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak
            truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one
            body.
            26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down
            while you are still angry,
            27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
            28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must
            work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may
            have something to share with those in need. (NIV)

Rom 2:11 For God does not show favoritism. (NIV)

 Sorry this is so long but the study itself took about 18 months and after finding that the passage had nothing to do with loosing salvation but a warning to live a life in Christ I thought I should share it.
Please comment on this by email or by a posting I would like to hear what other people think about this passage or share a study that reveals a truth about the scriptures.
One last thought I have left the church I was attending because they continued to teach falsely my relationship with Jesus is more important than a religion.

In His Hands,

Joel

Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."(NIV)

1 Thess 5:21 "Test everything and hold on to the good."(NIV)