jhaynes@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (05/10/91)
Unbelievable Grace Religion! Huh, What is it good for? Absolutely None! I have been studying the Word of God for nine years now and fine that between two different religions I can not find two of them to agree. In reading Hebrews 6:1-3 "Therefore let us leave the ELEMENTARY TEACHINGS ABOUT CHRIST AND GO ON TO MATURITY, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so." (NIV) If I have this right here are the six basic doctrines of the Church i.e. body of believers. 1. Repentance from acts that lead to death. 2. Faith in God. 3. Instruction about baptisms. 4. The laying on of hands. 5. The resurrection of the dead. 6. Eternal judgment. Most of the religions of today don't even list all of these in their doctrinal statements. Usually I find one or two that they highlight that makes them different then all the rest. For example the doctrine on baptisms. The reason I am writing is the old arguement should one be old enough to reason out his or her need for salvation, should one be immersed or just sprinkled, or does one really need to be baptized at all? First of all Jesus set up the right of baptizing Matt 28:19-20 note if you will the verb is "GO MAKE" disciples the means to do this is through baptism and teaching them to obey everything Jesus commanded them. I have taken a year of Greek now to help in my studies of the New Testament and found something very interesting about the use of the words "repent and be baptized" in Acts 2:38. The Greek root word is metanaeo which means to changes ones purpose or mind. The form that it is in is the passive, 3rd person singular, imperative. Passive is that something is being done to you. The imperative usually a command if the verb is in the 2nd person but in the third person it usually is a strong request or exhortation. From reading the original Greek I have come up with this statment to answer part of the question above. To baptize is a command for thoses who share the Gospel the listener is promised to receive the Holy Spirit in baptism Acts 2:39 but if he is not and calls on the name of the Lord he or she will be saved. Luke 11:13 "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE WILL YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THOSE WHO ASK!"(NIV) Satan I believe loves it when we argue about the means of grace. The unbelievable part of it all once I got out of following the foolish of man is in the following verses: Matt 10:40-42 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. AND IF ANYONE GIVES EVEN A CUP OF COLD WATER TO ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES BECAUSE HE IS MY DISCIPLE, I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, HE WILL CERTAINLY NOT LOSE HIS REWARD."(NIV) Wow does this reward mean Heaven for those who just give even a cup of cold water to one of the least of Jesus' disciples? YES YES YES Matt 25:37-40,46 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, WHATEVER YOU DID FOR ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE BROTHERS OF MINE, YOU DID FOR ME'" 46 "Then they (unrighteous) will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."(NIV) I have been giving out a lot of cold water these days, just kidding. But think about it didn't God set up an unbelievable grace that He gives salvation to those who are baptized or just the callers on His name. And they become one of the least disciples and can unknowning be spreading God's salvation. Sounds to good to be true. You heard the saing What Goes around Comes Around. Well my earthly father once told me "Son there are going to be three things on your mind when you get to Heaven: 1. Overwelmed that you are there. 2. Shocked of the ones who did make it. 3. Shocked of who is there." I thought my dad was brainwashed when he said this he is a Lutheran Pastor. I now am attending a Lutheran church myself. Not trying to push Lutherans but for the simple fact they teach the UNBELIEVABLE GRACE. I think studying the bible is great and helps us in our time of need but in this little topic I now understand why some Christians suffer and are in need so Our Heavenly Father can pass the UNBELIEVABLE GRACE ON. Religion is only are efforts to reach God where Christianity is God reaching out to mankind by UNBELIVABLE GRACE through the work of Jesus Christ. In His Hands, Joel Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."(NIV) 1 Thess 5:21 "Test everything and hold on to the good."(NIV)
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/13/91)
What do you think of Acts 19:6, wherein the men were baptized in the Holy Ghost, after they were baptized in water? What do you think of the men in Cornelius household, who were baptized in the Holy Ghost before they were baptized with water? What do you think of the Samaritans who were baptized with the Holy Ghost not when they were baptized with water at the preaching of Philip, but rather, when the apostles layed hands on them sometime later? It is my understanding that the crowd that Peter was adressing would be embracing the gospel when they were baptized. The people were observing the signs that accompanied the gift (donea- makes and interesting word study in acts) of the Holy Spirit. I think Peter was trying to say that after they were baptized, they could have the gift of the Holy Spirit. I don't see water baptism and baptism as intertwined as other people do. Cornelius was baptized after he recieved it. Others were baptized after. Link Hudson
jhaynes@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (05/18/91)
In article <May.13.04.14.56.1991.14775@athos.rutgers.edu>, hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes: > What do you think of Acts 19:6, wherein the men were baptized in the > Holy Ghost, after they were baptized in water? What do you think of > the men in Cornelius household, who were baptized in the Holy Ghost > before they were baptized with water? What do you think of the > Samaritans who were baptized with the Holy Ghost not when they were > baptized with water at the preaching of Philip, but rather, when the > apostles layed hands on them sometime later? Make interesting discussion about what went on in the Chapters of Acts. Remembering that the book is title the Acts of the Apostles. I first want to say I don't think I have all the answers but I am willing to share what I believe the truth is about scriptures I have studies. When I am wrong I know that God will bring to mind the wrong and make it right. Ok, with the disclaimer out of the way let's talk. First from my understanding what is shared in Acts about the speaking in tongues a sign for unbelievers so they could hear the wonders of God in their OWN LANGUAGE. 1 Cor 14:22, Acts 2:11 Second the gifts the signs, wonders, and miracles were to confirm the message of the apostles: Mark 16:20 "Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, AND THE LORD WORKED WITH THEM AND CONFIRMED HIS WORD BY THE SIGNS THAT ACCOMPANIED."(NIV) Hebrews 2:4 "God also testified to it (great salvation) by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit DISTRIBUTED ACCORDING TO HIS WILL." (NIV) Acts reveals the fulfillment of the Lord confirming the word by the signs that accompanied. Any of the areas in Acts that you point out you see that the word is confirmed by the miracles or the gift of speaking in tongues. You ask about Philip well I would step back from Acts 8 to Acts 6 to get a understanding of where philip joined the apostles ministry along with six others. Please read Acts 6 and note that the men they appointed to wait on tables were known to be full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom. Then they joint in the ministry of the apostles and preformed signs wonders and miracles. I believe the apostles showed up on the scheme in Acts 8 to confirm the message Philip was preaching. With this thought in mind the Holy Spirit had already been received by thoughts who were baptized. Think about it if you only receive the Holy Spirit from the laying on of the apostles hand then you and I and everyone else who call on his name don't have a chances for heaven. The spirit is given as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance those who have it go to heaven those who don't, don't. 1 John 5:11-12, Eph 1:14, John 14:26 John 17:11 > It is my understanding that the crowd that Peter was adressing would > be embracing the gospel when they were baptized. The people were > observing the signs that accompanied the gift (donea- makes and > interesting word study in acts) of the Holy Spirit. I think Peter was > trying to say that after they were baptized, they could have the gift > of the Holy Spirit. I don't see water baptism and baptism as > intertwined as other people do. Cornelius was baptized after he > recieved it. Others were baptized after. Link Hudson I believe the gift of salvation is promise in baptism, Holy Comunion, and calling on the name of the Lord. 1 John 5:7-8 "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."(NIV) call on the name of the Lord= Spirit baptism= water Holy Comunion= blood 1 Spirit Luke 11:13; Acts 2:21; Rom 10:13 2 Water Matt 28:19-20; Acts 2:38-39 3 Blood John 6:43-58; All accounts of the last supper look and see what who didn't partake. I see the grace of God different than when I first believed I don't believe I have a full understand of it but when I wrote unbelievable Grace I was shock to see the response of the Lord on Judgment Day Matt 25:31-46 nothing was said about oh you were baptized or partook of the Lord's Supper or anything like that it was the living Spirit of God in them that they did what they did for one of the least of Jesus' brothers. I hope I answered your questions but if not we can and I would enjoy talking more about this. In His Hands, Joel Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."(NIV)
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/19/91)
I assume that it is possible that this is the same Philip that was a deacon, but I think it was the apostle to whome Jesus spake at the feeding of the five tghousand. One whom Jesus said "follow me." The one who told Nathanail about Jesus. I think Jesus said to Philip, "he that hath seen me, htath seene the Father." The other apostles knew Philip the apostle (who is also refered to in Acts 1:13. Notice in Acts 8:1, the Christians were scattered abroad, except for the apostles, because of persecution (and Saul of Tarsus.) Philip then went doewn to Samaria, where, if he was the apostle, as I believe, he had been with Jesus when he encountered the woman at the well (and therefore he knew that the gospel was for them to, even though tey did not know it was for the Gentiles, or weren't ready to share it.) Look at 8:16, (FOr as yet the Holy Ghost had fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized in the name of hte Lord Jesus ") Also, look at Acts 19:2. Paul asks "Hve you recieveed the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" They had only been baptized unto John's baptism. Paul explained about Jesus to them, then they were baptized int he name of the Lord Jesus. then Paul layed hands on them and they recieved the Holy Ghost. I think that the Holy Spirit plays a part in salvation. But there is a specific gift of the Holy Ghost-"donea" in Greek. It is also called the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It is separate from salvation and baptism. Also, notice that not only the apostles exibited the gifts. The epistles make mention of the churches using them, and of course, so does Acts. Such verse as "despise not prophesyings." "Forbid not to speak with tounges." I Corinthians 12,and 14. Thanks. Link Hudson