ATINTON@esoc.bitnet (05/03/91)
In the first part of the bible, with ADAMS creation, it goes something like this : "God created man in his own image" And so with much discussion with some christian I know, they tell me that I have to accept that GOD is in the image of a man, the perfect being. If he is a man then, should he not have a penis. And the sole function of the penis is to propagate the species. Therefore one could assume that the is a female companion to GOD, more than one GOD, or a race of GODS. Please could someone answer this question for me in a sensible manner, as a lot of this holds the foundations of the bible together. [Since the authors of the OT thought God was immortal and invisible, it's clear that they couldn't have meant the term "image" to refer to the physical body. One can get an idea of at least some of what the author had in mind from other things in the creation account. E.g. in the same verse mankind is given dominion over the earth. In Gen 2 (which probably has somewhat different sources, but still shows Hebrew thought about creation) we see God breathing his spirit into the man. Note the difference: the body is *made*, from the dust. The spirit is breathed from God. From these two passages one might conclude that the image involves at least that God and humankind are both responsible moral agents, and that our spiritual side is related to God. I'm sure others will have other suggestions. --clh]
Frank.Farkas@eng.sun.com (Frank Farkas) (05/05/91)
In article <May.3.03.04.19.1991.24152@athos.rutgers.edu>, ATINTON@esoc.bitnet writes: >[Since the authors of the OT thought God was immortal and invisible, >it's clear that they couldn't have meant the term "image" to refer to >the physical body. One can get an idea of at least some of what the >author had in mind from other things in the creation account. E.g. >in the same verse mankind is given dominion over the earth. In Gen 2 >(which probably has somewhat different sources, but still shows Hebrew >thought about creation) we see God breathing his spirit into the man. >Note the difference: the body is *made*, from the dust. The spirit is >breathed from God. From these two passages one might conclude that >the image involves at least that God and humankind are both >responsible moral agents, and that our spiritual side is related to >God. I'm sure others will have other suggestions. --clh] I would like to respond to remarks made by the Moderator, whether God has a body or not. First of all, the OT doesn't teach that God doesn't have a body. It may teach that he is invisible, because most man couldn't see him. Here is what Paul has to say about God being invisible, as he refers to Moses: Hebrews 11:27 ============= "By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. I believe that when we read Genesis we in fact get the picture that we were in fact created in God's physical image: Genesis 5:3 =========== "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and beget a son in his own *likeness*, after his own *image*:..." (The emphesis is mine) The usage of the words "image" and "likeness" here is identical to the usage in Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1. First of all, the argument that man was created in the moral image of God is false, before the fall and after the fall. 1. Before the fall man new no good and no evil. Without such knowledge, man couldn't possibly exercise any moral decision whatsoever. However, it is exactly the time when God says that *they* did create them in *their* image. Genesis 1:26 ============ "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:." The fact that they did eat from the tree of good and evil is not the same kind of sin which we do when we do understand, and yet still do evil. 2. After the fall they did knew good and evil, however, since not one person, with the exception of Jesus, was ever sinless, we can't say that we have been created in the moral image of God. I am not sure why there is such a tremendous problem with God the Father having a body. I believe that the gnostics did at least win a partial victory. They have influenced the doctrine of the church in such way as to make God the Father a person who has no parts, passions, and he doesn't occupy space at any time. He is every where and no where at the same time. He essentially became a none entity. No parts, no feelings, exists everywhere and no where. This is one of the better description of nothing I have ever heard. Such concept of God is not biblical in my opinion. He does love, He is long suffering, He gets angry, etc. All of this things are what is called passion. The scriptures mention those who saw Him face to face. They talked with Him as one man talks with another. Moses and the Seventy elders saw his feet in the Tabernecle. However, the strongest proof I have for the idea that God the Father has a body is the fact that Jesus, his Son, has a body. Now, let me ask, why is it that Jesus was resurrected with his physical body? Isn't Jesus God? What does he do with his physical body? Why not just return to the "superior state" which his Father is in? Does Jesus has all his body parts? And let me ask the question, why are we going to be resurrected in our physical bodies? The answer to this questions are simple, if we accept the fact that God the Father also has a body. If this is true, than the fact that we were created in *their* image makes a whole lot of sense to me. Also, it is obvious to me that our physical bodies are necessary, and all of the parts have functions. If this wouldn't be the case, neither Jesus, nor any one of us would be resurrected. What purpose would there be for the resurrection of the body, if there wouldn't be any purpose in it at all? The bottom line is, that I know that Jesus was resurrected in his physical body. I also know that he is in fact God. The scriptures bear witness to this fact: Hebrews 1:8-9 =========== "But unto the Son he saith, Thy trone, O'God, is for ever and ever:.." "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness abovethy fellows." The scriptures does in fact teach not only that Jesus is God, but the fact that he has a God too. John writting in Revelations says the following: Rev 1:6 ======= "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." It appears that John says that God has a father too. It is clear that many passages in the Bible can be inerpreted different ways. This is the reason that further revelation on this subject was necessary. Such revelation has been received through the prophet Joseph Smith. D&C 130:22 ========== "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." I found that truth is always simple. Truth is light, and it is discernible. It does enlighten our understanding. I hope that I did provide an answer to the person who initiated this tread. With brotherly love, Frank
James.Quilty@comp.vuw.ac.nz (James William Quilty) (05/07/91)
In article <May.3.03.04.19.1991.24152@athos.rutgers.edu>, ATINTON@esoc.bitnet writes: |> And the sole function of the penis is to propagate the species. This assumes the "reproductive definition of sex" (the only purpose of sexuality/sexual intercourse is reproduction) which I personnally don't subscribe to - it's not logical, but it is the position that is pushed in this society for various reasons - read the good old "Hite Report" by Shere Hite about the reproductive definition and it's problems. Also, we are made in God's image, but we aren't identical to God - would God look like me if God had a choice ???? :-) Jim.
slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) (05/07/91)
In article <May.3.03.04.19.1991.24152@athos.rutgers.edu>, ATINTON@esoc.bitnet writes: > In the first part of the bible, with ADAMS creation, > it goes something like this : > > "God created man in his own image" > > And so with much discussion with some christian I know, they tell me that > I have to accept that GOD is in the image of a man, the perfect being. > > If he is a man then, should he not have a penis. And the sole function > of the penis is to propagate the species. Isn't the bible full of passages that say something to the effect that God is our Father or the Father of our spirits? (see Hebrews 12:9; Acts 17:28-29; Numbers 16:22; Deut. 14:1; Job 32:8; Psalms 82:6; Eccl. 12:7; Isa 42:5 Hosea 1:10; Mal. 2:10; Matt. 5:48; Rom. 8:16.) > Therefore one could assume that > the is a female companion to GOD, If you don't mind, I'll throw in some Mormon interpretation. This is not official doctrine, but rather is the result of reason and speculation. It is not scriptural. Most Mormons believe that there is a Mother in heaven too. The reason that there is no mention of her in scripture is simple. God has enough trouble with people mis-understanding him and using his name in vain. Don't you think that he would get even more upset and wroth if we started doing that to his wife? (I can already feel flames coming for this.) Besides, we are instructed to worship only him, since he will be the one that decides our fate. > more than one GOD, See 1 Corinthians 8:5-6; Psalms 82:6 God the Father is one being, Jesus Christ the Son of God is another being, and the Holy Ghost is still another being. They act together as one God (see John 17:21-23). While there may be more that one God, and we have the potential to become like God (Matt.5:48), for us there is only one God that can give us salvation and immortality. Worshiping other gods will not help us in any way, for even if they do exist, *they* do not have the power to save us. Only God has the power to save *us.* > or a race of GODS. If we are faithful and obedient to the end won't we become godlike? (1 John 3:1-3). And if we become godlike couldn't we then be considered as a race of gods? > Please could someone answer this question for me in a sensible manner, > as a lot of this holds the foundations of the bible together. I hope that helps. I'm putting my asbestos suit on. :-) -- Jason Hunsaker slhw4@cc,usu.edu
gowj@gatech.edu (James Gow) (05/13/91)
In article <May.3.03.04.19.1991.24152@athos.rutgers.edu> ATINTON@esoc.bitnet writes: >In the first part of the bible, with ADAMS creation, it goes something like > >this : > >"God created man in his own image" > >And so with much discussion with some christian I know, they tell me that >I have to accept that GOD is in the image of a man, the perfect being. > >If he is a man then, should he not have a penis. And the sole function >of the penis is to propagate the species. Therefore one could assume that >the is a female companion to GOD, more than one GOD, or a race of GODS. > >Since God is a spirit we must conclude that the image of God is Jesus. 1 John says noone has seen God so the only way we can see God is in Jesus. 2 cor 4:4 "...christ whoe is the image of God." So in Genisis when it says God mad man in his own image we must understand it was talking about Jesus. God the father whoe we can not see or understand had to work through Jesus since we cannto understand the infinite. Yes I belive God in the person of Jesus ahd a penis but God the father on his son Jesus are one so they are different but equal. This is the is and the is not of God. Eastern philosophy can only be fulfilled in christ. The ying and the yang can only be explained by christ adn his father. If you want to come to true enlightment you must come to it through Jesus of Nazareth. Outside of this truth there is only glasses that are half full. All religions all philosophys only find their fullfillment in Christ. If you want to know wha it is all about find Jesus he has the answers to all of lifes problems and mysterys. >[Since the authors of the OT thought God was immortal and invisible, >it's clear that they couldn't have meant the term "image" to refer to >the physical body. One can get an idea of at least some of what the > I blieve they did after all Jesus always existed. He is the eternal Son. The Jews saw Jesus noah ate with him Adam hid from him in the coool of the day gen 3:8. author had in mind from other things in the creation account. E.g. >in the same verse mankind is given dominion over the earth. In Gen 2 >(which probably has somewhat different sources, but still shows Hebrew >thought about creation) we see God breathing his spirit into the man. >Note the difference: the body is *made*, from the dust. The spirit is >breathed from God. From these two passages one might conclude that > this wrod breathe is plural from which we get the concept spirit and soul. the image involves at least that God and humankind are both >responsible moral agents, and that our spiritual side is related to >God. I'm sure others will have other suggestions. --clh] Our physical side is also related to God. Remember Jacob wrestled with him and he threw his hip out of joint. This was flesh nd bone so God in the person of Jesus Christ had a physical existance from eternity. Our flesh is not to be despised since it was made by God. It is to be brougth under subjection and the spirit is to rule it but since God in Jesus ahd a fleshly and does have a fleshly existence we are not to hate our bodies. Remember we are to love our wifes as our own flesh but it submits to our spirits nto our spirits to our flesh. YOr body hurts when it is burned or bruised. God desinged it not for abuse but for care. linc james
mcorbin@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Michael Corbin) (05/18/91)
In any sense, I would say that the answer is yes. Altnernately, He also had the ability to have sexual intercourse, however He chose not to since His mission did not entail this. Secondly, I feel that when the Bible refers to us as "created in God's image," this refers to the intelligence that we possess and the internal recognition of God that we have. Michael Corbin
jl@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (John Launchbury) (05/23/91)
mcorbin@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Michael Corbin) writes: >In any sense, I would say that the answer is yes. Altnernately, He also >had the ability to have sexual intercourse, however He chose not to since >His mission did not entail this. >Secondly, I feel that when the Bible refers to us as "created in God's >image," this refers to the intelligence that we possess and the internal >recognition of God that we have. >Michael Corbin At last I feel the urge to respond to this. Gen 1 is quite explicit that God created man in his own image, male and female. It is humans who are in the image of God, not males alone. This observation alone seems to be enough to settle the question. John Launcbury.