lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew) (05/24/91)
gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) writes: >Louie Crew writes: >---------------------------------------- >Campus Crusade and Intervarsity are heterosexual cults.....<rest >omitted> >---------------------------------------- >Isn't this just your way of saying that they don't agree with your >theology? No. When you reviewed CC and IV, Fred, you confirmed their narrow, personalized readings of the Bible, exactly as I had indicated from my experiences 40 years ago. You never responded to my comment about their withdrawal from all the social justice venues of our time. They were not there in the 1960s when many Christians were working to integrate the University. They were not there in the 1970s when many Christians were trying to end the war in Vietnam. They were not there in the 1980s when many Christians were trying to stave off the violence being done to the poor by the rich of this society. They are not there in any of the ongoing struggles for gender justice, for an end to apartheid, for an end to homophobia, for a wiser use of the riches of the environment. They were not there in the justices struggles of the Philippines or of Nicaragua..... Cults always withdraw from the culture to set a private agenda. They are neither in the world nor of it. They withdraw themselves from the structures in which Jesus asks us to move as leaven. Some groups whose theologies I disagree with I would still not call cults, such as the Roman Catholic Church or the now defunct Moral Majority. These are clearly moving within the world, caring for it, loving it into a new vision of itself (even though I do not share their particular visions.) Nor would all groups that I might describe as cults meet with my disapproval--for example, the cult of Baroque musicians. I find no problem with persons retreating from the world for special interests, when those interests are not the complete center of their theology. I respect cursillo, for example, but only when the cursillistas return to function fully and responsibly within the world. Cursillo is a cult that leads some away permanently into privatized religion, that leads others into the service which Jesus repeatedly specifies: if you love me, feed my sheep. I hope that you can and will show me that I am wrong in my understanding of CC and IV. I have no interest to slander them. You might find it interesting to use the litany Jesus uses for the biggie, For when I was naked, you .... in prison, you.... sick, you.... I have never run into CC or IV ministries in my visits to these venues. I do see CC and IV on my campus even this month trying to take sensitive people and direct them away from a concern for the whole world into a concern for the private and personal salvation. Louie Louie Crew . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu Associate Professor . . . . . . . . . . . . . .lcrew@draco.rutgers.edu Academic Foundations Department . . . . . . . CompuServe No. 73517,147 Rutgers: The State University of New Jersey. . . . . . 201-485-4503 h P. O. Box 30 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201-648-5434 o Newark, NJ 07101 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201-648-5700 FAX [Perhaps things are different on different campuses. There's a posting later in this group with different experiences. I have to say when I was at CMU (20 years ago), the IVCF group did have a prison ministry. You probably still wouldn't have approved of it, but the overall experience was different from what you portray. A lot may depend upon the particular campus representative. I heard at one point that ours was regarded as more "liberal" than is typical. (The fact that I was an officer may be indicative, since I do not believe in inerrancy, which is in principle a requirement for membership.) The IVCF group at CMU was in fact fairly inclusive. There was a close informal relationship with the local Catholic campus group. My association with IVCF gave me an exposure to a variety of Christian experience that I wouldn't otherwise have had. Despite the fact that I didn't always agree with the official theology, I found it quite valuable. --clh]
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/26/91)
You said that cults were in the world but not of it. Isn't that the way Paul instructed the church to be? Not every religious organization needs to be so involved in politics. Other functions need to be met. If Campus Crusade is a cult is the BSU? Here at Georgia most Crusaders or Baptists. Is it the churches job to end homophobia? No. It is the churches job to teach people not to commit sexual immorality. But to end the fear of sexual immoralities? I don't think that is part of the job of a Christian organization. Link Hudson. Politicws was not the main concern of the early church (they did, however feed the hungry, and I agree that the church should do this today.) Spiritual matters are more important.