smithjh@argus.CS.ORST.EDU (Jeremy Smith) (05/28/91)
In article <May.24.00.28.49.1991.29751@athos.rutgers.edu> tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) writes: > >>Acceptance of what? Acceptance of whom? > >Acceptance of our brothers and sisters beliefs, even if they vary from >our own, assuming that they are attempting to follow the laws of God as >earnestly as we are. (I am not advocating the acceptance of Satanists, >their purposes are not ours. They are not trying to follow the laws of >God, they reject the laws of God intentionally.) > Whether or not other peoples beliefs differ from my own is not the issue that I have been trying to raise here. Which ideas or beliefs are consistent with God's word is the vien I would like to pursue. >I Corinthians 14:1-4 > It is love, then that you should strive for. Set your hearts on >spiritual gifts, especially the gift of proclaiming God's message. 2 >The one who speaks in strange tongues does not speak to others but to >God, because no one understands him. He is speaking secret truths by >the power of the Spirit. 3 But the one who proclaims God's message >speaks to people and gives them help, encouragement, and comfort. 4 The >one who speaks in strange tongues helps only himself, but the one who >proclaims God's message helps the whole church. (TEV) > stuff deleted ... > >I Corinthians 14:12 >... 12 Since you are eager to have the gifts of the Spirit, you must try >above everything else to make greater use of those which help to build >up the church. (TEV) > Making greater use of women seems to be a honorable cause according to the previous citations. Notice that this concept is not in conflict with women *not* excercising authority over men in spiritual matters. NOTE: I read scripture with the assumption that all truth is reconcilable with itself. (i.e. the true meaning behind scripture verses reveals the verses to be harmonious) >In Paul's letter to the Romans, he spends quite a lot of time discussing >matters of division in the church of Rome. It seems to me that in >essense he tells the Jews not to try to make Gentiles into Jews, and he >tells the Gentiles to respect the beliefs of the Jews, because there is >neither Jew nor Gentile, only Christian. (Christians with different >beliefs and practices, which they concientiously hold to.) > It is true that there are many different customs and practices that can be used to the Glory of God. Indeed: "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5. As long as such rituals are done as to the Lord, they are worthwhile. However such pratices as fornication, adultery, stealing, etc.. are not O.K. whether or not they are done with the (mistaken) pretense of glory to God. My point is that the scripture reveals unholy practices that, by their very nature, are abominable in God's eyes. My question to you is: Realizing that God has gone to some trouble (though easy for him) to reveal His gospel in written form to us at one time, if indeed there are exceptions to the written accounts sent to us, SURELY God knew this time would come. If this is the case, what means has he provided to us, if any, to determine which scripture APPLIES and which scripture DOESN't. (this is a very *serious* question) If only part of the scripture is true, how do we determine what is good so we can disregard the rest? (Paul demonstrates extreme care in differentiating between his opinions and God's words). Seeing someone you think is Godly doing something DOES NOT imply that what they are doing is pleasing to God. Seeing 10 people you think are Godly doing something DOES NOT imply that what they are doing is pleasing to God. Seeing (pick a number) people you think are Godly DOES NOT even imply that you are seeing Christians since only God can tell the wheat from the tare before they reach maturity. If a movement of so-called Christians begins performing miraculous works and claims a new dispensation has arrived and do not come firmly based in the prophetic word already given to us, as Jesus Christ did, do not be deceived by their lies! Besides, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Why should he change his tune all of a sudden? Jesus Christ's conflict with the Pharisees was not because they were sticklers for the Law, they didn't follow the heart of the law, let alone the fine points. The Pharisees were stuck in the traditions of men, not in the prophetic utterances of God. If you don't believe Paul's writings are God-Breathed, I heartily disagree with you! If you believe Paul's writings are God-Breathed, then we have common interests. But if you allow yourself to pick and choose which are true and which are not, then you are establishing your own philosophy and are deceiving yourself and others. > >Then if the Apostles could make such a major blunder, why couldn't Paul >make an equally major blunder? > There are times when people are not being led by the Holy Spirit, at these times they are capable of a great many things. My assumption is that when the Prophets write, they are filled with the Holy Spirit. In other words, I assume that the scripture is God-Breathed. As I said before, Paul went to great pains to distinguish between his opinions and the word of God. > >I would say that the holy spirit has given us such a teaching. What >would it take for you to say it? Must it be written in the clouds? >Must a voice boom from the sky? I testify that I have seen the signs. >You don't accept my testimony, have you examined the signs yourself? > Yes. (some) "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." -- 2 Timothy 4:3-4 This sign is a prophecy, your so-called signs(to my knowledge) are not. >Go! Find a congregation led by a woman. Learn from that congregation. >Tell me then if you believe that women cannot be called by the spirit. >People have used scripture to prove many things over the years. Please >do not tell me that your, (or my), limited understanding of the >scripture holds sway over the workings of the Spirit. I tell you >that the Spirit is working through these women today. > Again, whether I see 7, 70, or 7 times 70 women leading so-called churches that are growing is not the issue. My interpretation of the scripture may be in error, but the issue is not your or my perception of someone's Godliness. > >I'm sorry if it offends you, but from all I have seen of this woman's >ministry, I cannot accept that her calling comes from anyone but God. > How much "good" someone is apparently doing is unimportant compared to whether or not they are abiding in the teachings of Christ: "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds." 2 John 9-11. Grace and Peace to the called Saints! Jeremy Smith.