jbaird@bbn.com (Janet Baird) (05/05/91)
I am a born again Christian and believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven. This is understandibly an unpopular belief with many people because that means that everyone else is going to hell (whether you are a good person or not). I find this belief is probably one of the most difficult things about being a Christian. My question is: How do you explain to your friends, who are good people with their own various beliefs, that only through Christ can someone get to Heaven? This is the kind of question that starts arguments and pisses everyone off at you. I have tried to share my faith with different friends and have generally avoided this one aspect simply because I felt that they would get really turned off, that they maybe weren't quite ready, or for some other reason. I feel somewhat inadequate as a Christian witness for this reason. I realize that "winning souls" is not every Christian's job. That we are to be simply witness and that what we say may only influence the person a little bit, who then may come to Christ years later after many such encounters. Anyway if other Christians out there have any thoughts or advice I would appreciate it. Thanks, Janet
tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) (05/07/91)
In article <May.5.00.30.51.1991.28789@athos.rutgers.edu> jbaird@bbn.com (Janet Baird) writes: >My question is: How do you explain to your friends, who are good people >with their own various beliefs, that only through Christ can someone get >to Heaven? This is the kind of question that starts arguments and pisses >everyone off at you. (Quite frankly), I don't. I'm really quite uncomfortable with scaring souls to Jesus. I don't hide my beliefs. I try not to parade them either. If friends ask me questions, I do my best to answer. I invite friends to church if I think they might accept. I *personally believe* that if a person attempts to follow the law, (or Jesus) only to go to Heaven they've already missed the boat. I *personally believe* that a person who follows Christ's teachings 'cause they think they're real good ideas is a lot closer to the mark than the person who follows Jesus 'cause God's gonna get 'em if they don't. I'm not saying that *you* only follow Jesus to escape Hell. It's obvious that you are concerned for your friend's feelings and their eternal souls as well. I believe that you have a strong faith in Jesus, and that you believe he is your only redemption. Don't lie to your friends. If they ask you about your beliefs, tell them that you believe in Jesus and that he is the one true way. But don't tell them that he's their only chance as a way to convert them. Show them the teachings of Jesus. Show them how you put them into action. Lead the life you believe Jesus would have you lead. You say your friends are good people, by this I would assume that they would agree with most (if not all) of Jesus' teachings, they just don't go for all of that "religious stuff"*. (Right?) Great! Maybe they have other faiths. What beliefs do you have in common? How can you affirm the beliefs you share? Be a living witness. We've all heard that "actions speak louder than words". I truly believe this. Acting out your faith beats talking about it by a mile. Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton * One of my favorite books in the Bible is Romans. A great treatment of Romans can be found in "How to be a Christian Without Being Religious". There are both youth and adult versions of this book.
x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (05/11/91)
In article <May.5.00.30.51.1991.28789@athos.rutgers.edu>, jbaird@bbn.com (Janet Baird) writes: > I am a born again Christian and believe that Christ is the only way to > Heaven. This is understandibly an unpopular belief with many people > because that means that everyone else is going to hell (whether you are a > good person or not). I find this belief is probably one of the most > difficult things about being a Christian. I exchanged some email with Janet, and now I think I'll open my question to the net: for those who think so, why *exactly* is being a Christian neccessary for salvation? As far as I can tell, the Bible is silent on this. If anything, I can find references that state: follow Jesus ==> saved ... or something to that effect. I have not seen anything that explicitly states not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved My stand: I personally do not think it plausible that God would condemn good-intentioned people who do not invoke Jesus' name (lower case "n" ie the letters JESUS) but who follow his commandments nevertheless "Love one another ... ". These are people who do not label themselves Christian. Chris
oracle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Brian T. Coughlin) (05/11/91)
Re: Janet Baird In article <May.5.00.30.51.1991.28789@athos.rutgers.edu> jbaird@bbn.com (Janet Baird) writes: >I am a born again Christian and believe that Christ is the only way to >Heaven. This is understandibly an unpopular belief with many people >because that means that everyone else is going to hell (whether you are a >good person or not). I find this belief is probably one of the most >difficult things about being a Christian. > >My question is: How do you explain to your friends, who are good people >with their own various beliefs, that only through Christ can someone get >to Heaven? This is the kind of question that starts arguments and pisses >everyone off at you. >I feel somewhat inadequate as a Christian witness for this reason. I >realize that "winning souls" is not every Christian's job. That we are to >be simply witness and that what we say may only influence the person a >little bit, who then may come to Christ years later after many such >encounters. Hi, Janet! I've puzzled over much the same thing, as I'm entering a Catholic seminary in a few months, and am thus forced to evaluate my attitude toward all walks of Catholic life. In this "analysis", I was hit slap in the face with, "evangelism is a solemn duty of a Christian", but at the same time, the idea of actively "tearing" someone else's beloved worldview/religion from them disgusted me. I've come to the conclusion that I, personally, am "called" to be an "evangelist by example". That is, I will try my very best to live up to God's hopes for me. During this, I will gladly answer any questions about my [Catholic] faith to the best of my ability, and I will try my best to be alert to "pleas for conversion" from anyone. But I cannot bring myself to go knocking door-to-door, "peddling" Christ like some second-hand encyclopedia collection. Nor can I bring myself to tear someone's faith away from them "by force", even if I truly believe that their beliefs are mistaken. Not only do I see that as an act of cruelty, but I believe that even a CONVERT to Christianity who has had a past faith/worldview "ripped" away will not be a contented, peaceful, fulfilled Christian. God will bring His people to Himself in due time; I believe that it's not up to me to try to "force the issue". (It's a bit like rushing the making of ice cream: you end up with unpleasant mush.) As far as your question goes: I'd recommend that you de-emphasize your "active" evangelism, and try to bring out the "passive" evangelism within you... by being more and more caring, loving, unselfish, understanding, non-judgemental, and open every day. Your friends WILL see the difference... believe me! It's a common mistake, in this "fast-food, microwave, USA Today" world, to assume that the "fast and dirty" method is best for everything, including faith. That is, "the only way to convert is by force, and with as much speed as humanly possible." I'd like to convince you that this idea is not only false, but is downright counterproductive. Remember the old adage: "One can't rush perfection." Don't think that, because the "passive" evangelism-by-example is less dynamic, speedy and flambuoyant, it's any less effective or worthy. Try it; it's a LOT less stressful on you, much less aggravating to your friends, and you might be surprised at how well it works! Good luck, and take care! Sincerely, Brian Coughlin oracle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
chappell@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Glenn Chappell) (05/13/91)
In article <May.10.22.56.33.1991.26583@athos.rutgers.edu> x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >I exchanged some email with Janet, and now I think I'll open my question >to the net: for those who think so, why *exactly* is being a Christian >neccessary for salvation? As far as I can tell, the Bible is silent on >this. If anything, I can find references that state: > >follow Jesus ==> saved ... or something to that effect. > >I have not seen anything that explicitly states > >not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved There are plenty of "only Jesus" passages in the Bible. You might check out John 14:6 and I John 5:12. However, the one that probably comes closest to what you are asking is Acts 4:12 (the following is from NIV): "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." BTW, it is clear from context that Jesus is being discussed. In particular, see v. 10. GGC <><
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/13/91)
In article <May.10.22.56.33.1991.26583@athos.rutgers.edu> x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >> I am a born again Christian and believe that Christ is the only way to >> Heaven. This is understandibly an unpopular belief with many people >> because that means that everyone else is going to hell (whether you are a >> good person or not). I find this belief is probably one of the most >> difficult things about being a Christian. : for those who think so, why *exactly* is being a Christian >neccessary for salvation? As far as I can tell, the Bible is silent on >this. If anything, I can find references that state: > >follow Jesus ==> saved ... or something to that effect. > >I have not seen anything that explicitly states > >not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved > Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Jesus is the only way to God. I cannot find the reference for this verse at the moment. I am pretty sure that it is in John. There are many verses in John that also prove that Jesus is the only way to God. It is sometimes to believe that God will condemn people for not accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but God put forth the effort to save mankind. Jesus died on the cross and bare our sins, and rose from the dead, giving us new life in him. Now it is our responsibility to share Him with the world. I think you probably have heard of John 3:16. John 3:18 says, "He that believeth on Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." The Bible says that there is no other name under heaven whereby men may be saved. Link Hudson
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/14/91)
In article <May.10.23.09.31.1991.27036@athos.rutgers.edu> oracle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Brian T. Coughlin) writes: > As far as your question goes: I'd recommend that you de-emphasize > your "active" evangelism, and try to bring out the "passive" evangelism > within you... by being more and more caring, loving, unselfish, > understanding, non-judgemental, and open every day. Your friends WILL > see the difference... believe me! I agree that being loving and caring is important, but that does not mean that one should not take advantage of opportunities to share the Gospel. Particularly if one feels that it is right for him to even go door to door. We should not try to twist arms, I agree. But if one feels that he should evangelize, it would be wrong for him not to because James writes that for him that knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. Paul said "woe unto me if I preach not the gospel" or something to that effect. Link Hudson.
JMK5@ns.cc.lehigh.edu (J. Michael Kafes) (05/18/91)
In article <May.13.04.18.18.1991.14845@athos.rutgers.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes: >Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto >the Father, but by me." Jesus is the only way to God. I cannot find >the reference for this verse at the moment. I am pretty sure that it >is in John. There are many verses in John that also prove that Jesus >is the only way to God. What about the other verses revealed in John and elsewhere, as excerpted below? As you are reading these, try to reevaluate Jesus' station for yourself. John 16:7-8: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment;" John 16:13-14: "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak...He will glorify Me, for He will take what is Mine and declare it to you." John 14:10: "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works." John 12:44: "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me." John 14:24: "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." Mark 10:18: "Why do you call Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God."
chaplin@uunet.uu.net (chaplin) (05/18/91)
In article <May.10.22.56.33.1991.26583@athos.rutgers.edu> x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >I have not seen anything that explicitly states > >not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved > >My stand: I personally do not think it plausible that God would condemn >good-intentioned people who do not invoke Jesus' name (lower case "n" ie >the letters JESUS) but who follow his commandments nevertheless "Love one >another ... ". These are people who do not label themselves Christian. > >Chris Just a few passages which I feel *do* explicitly state that "not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved": Acts 4:10-12 - Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 1 Timothy 2:5,6 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, ... Titus 3:5-7 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. -- Roger Chaplin / Instruments Division Engineering | "Eschew obfuscation." chaplin@keinstr.uucp / CI$: 76307,3506 | - Jim Mazak
smith@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Roy Smith jr) (05/18/91)
In article <May.10.22.56.33.1991.26583@athos.rutgers.edu> x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: > why *exactly* is being a Christian >neccessary for salvation? As far as I can tell, the Bible is silent on >this. If anything, I can find references that state: > >follow Jesus ==> saved ... or something to that effect. > >I have not seen anything that explicitly states > >not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved > >My stand: I personally do not think it plausible that God would condemn >good-intentioned people who do not invoke Jesus' name (lower case "n" ie >the letters JESUS) but who follow his commandments nevertheless "Love one >another ... ". These are people who do not label themselves Christian. > >Chris Acts 4:12 says, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Romans 10:9 "..if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." It is the good-intentioned people who try to follow his commandments that are trying to obtain salvation through works. Ephesians 2:8,9 says that it is by grace that we are saved, not works. Also, a person without Jesus still has sins that need payment. "For the wages of sin is death.." Romans 6:23. This is why Jesus is needed. He is the only means by which we may appear righteous before God. Hope this helps. Jim Smith30z smith@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Northwestern University
x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (05/19/91)
x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >>I have not seen anything that explicitly states >> >>not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved keinstr!keinstr!chaplin@uunet.uu.net (chaplin) responded with a list of passages > Acts 4:10-12... Neither is there salvation in any other: for there > is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. > 1 Timothy 2:5,6 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and > men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, ... > > Titus 3:5-7 - .. which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our > Saviour; that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs > according to the hope of eternal life. I'm afraid you would have to do better than this. The above passages *do* state that Jesus is our sole source of salvation (or something to that effect). This I accept happily. Unfortunately none of these specify that the explicit act of becoming a Christian ("accept Christ as my personal Savior" -- where did *that* come from?) is needed to receive the salvation that Christ offers. I prefer to think that Jesus would give salvation freely to anyone who, by their actions (we are physical/spiritual beings, after all, and our actions reflect our spirit) show that they belong to God; by displaying Love. Did Jesus state that one must call his name explicitly (Yesus, Jesus, or some appropriate translation of that name) to gain that salvation? Not in the passages you quoted. Whatever the commandments that Jesus explicitly gave, none of them had to do with "You absolutely MUST use my name, spelt whatever way you choose, to gain the salvation I intend to give to everyone". They have more to do with love (your neighbor, God etc), which non Christians can do. Finally, non Christians can easily argue the following: 1. I follow God 2. Jesus is God 3. Therefore, I follow Jesus. (even if not explicitly) This is especially true of Jews and Muslims, though you would never hear this from them. That they worship God the Father is beyond dispute. How can we claim a monopoly on salvation? in Christ, Chris
jclark@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (John Clark) (05/22/91)
In article <May.18.02.17.01.1991.4048@athos.rutgers.edu> keinstr!keinstr!chaplin@uunet.uu.net (chaplin) writes:
+Just a few passages which I feel *do* explicitly state that "not follow
+Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved":
+ ....
This begs the question does 'Jesus == saved' require that only
Christianity as conceived by modern members is the only way to
heaven? Or Christianity as conceive by any group since it's
inception the only way? Or was Christianity the way for the jewish
people but got 'borrowed' by non-jews. One can only wonder if the
Jews had not revolted and not be relocated what would have
happened.
--
John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edugt5448b@prism.gatech.edu (CORBETT,JAMES FRANKLIN) (05/22/91)
In article <May.18.23.07.25.1991.14524@athos.rutgers.edu> x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >>>I have not seen anything that explicitly states >>> >>>not follow Jesus (explicitly ie by name) ==> not saved > > [ Biblical references deleted ] > >I'm afraid you would have to do better than this. The above passages *do* >state that Jesus is our sole source of salvation (or something to that effect). >This I accept happily. Unfortunately none of these specify that the explicit >act of becoming a Christian ("accept Christ as my personal Savior" -- where >did *that* come from?) is needed to receive the salvation that Christ offers. Two passages that come to mind are Romans 10:9-10: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with you mouth that you confess and are saved. In answer to your question of going through Christ for salvation, John 14:6 states: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes unto the Father except through me. When we "accept Christ as our personal Savior" we recognize that when Jesus died on the cross, he bore the sins of the world and died in our place. In other words, before the birth of Christ, people had to sacrifice their best lamb, cow, or whatever they had and give it to God as atonement for their sin. But by Jesus' death on the cross, we do not have to sacrifice anything to God. Jesus was the perfect man and therefore the perfect sacrifice. All we have to do is believe that He died for us and confess our belief before men as is stated in Romans. The passage from John just confirms that through Jesus is the only way to salvation. Just doing good works isn't enough as hard as that is to believe or accept. >Did Jesus state that one must call his name explicitly (Yesus, Jesus, or some >appropriate translation of that name) to gain that salvation? Not in the >passages you quoted. Whatever the commandments that Jesus explicitly gave, >none of them had to do with "You absolutely MUST use my name, spelt whatever >way you choose, to gain the salvation I intend to give to everyone". They >have more to do with love (your neighbor, God etc), which non Christians >can do. > >Finally, non Christians can easily argue the following: > >1. I follow God >2. Jesus is God >3. Therefore, I follow Jesus. (even if not explicitly) > >This is especially true of Jews and Muslims, though you would never hear this >from them. That they worship God the Father is beyond dispute. How can we >claim a monopoly on salvation? The issue of Muslims is that they do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah. They say he was a good man, but do not believe that he died for us. As for the Jews, not knowing much about the Jewish belief, I cannot answer that question in good faith and don't want to put my foot in my mouth. I realize that my statements are kind of before the question, but I am new to posting things so please forgive me. -- CORBETT,JAMES FRANKLIN Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt5448b Internet: gt5448b@prism.gatech.edu
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/22/91)
I think we need to be careful in our attempts to give salvation to all mankind. Sometimes we are afraid to say "we have a monopoly on salvation." It does not sound good. God has a monopoly on salvation. And he did indeed provide a way for all mankind to be saved. That way is Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John wrote that he that does not believe the Son shall be condemned. In the latter part of Mark, it is written that Jesus said that whoesoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, but whosever DOES NOT BELIEVE SHALL BE CONDEMNED. You can agree with him or disagree, but God wanted a way for men to reach him, and Jesus is that Way.
oracle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Brian T. Coughlin) (05/27/91)
Re: Paul Hudson Jr. In article <May.14.03.15.22.1991.3045@athos.rutgers.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes, in response to my article: >> As far as your question goes: I'd recommend that you de-emphasize >> your "active" evangelism, and try to bring out the "passive" evangelism >> within you... by being more and more caring, loving, unselfish, >> understanding, non-judgemental, and open every day. Your friends WILL >> see the difference... believe me! >I agree that being loving and caring is important, but that does not >mean that one should not take advantage of opportunities to share the >Gospel. Particularly if one feels that it is right for him to even go >door to door. We should not try to twist arms, I agree. But if one >feels that he should evangelize, it would be wrong for him not to >because James writes that for him that knows to do good and does it >not, to him it is sin. Paul said "woe unto me if I preach not the >gospel" or something to that effect. I reread the Epistle of James, and found some rather surprising wording. Rather than addressing restraint of evangelism, James writes: "Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; [...] If a man who does not control his tongue imagines that he is devout, he is self-deceived; his worship is pointless. Looking after orphans and widows in their distress and keeping oneself unspotted by the world make for pure worship without stain before our God and Father." (NAV, James 1:19-27) And notice that Paul said, "Woe unto *me* if *I* preach not the Gospel" (or whatever the exact wording is... I *do* remember the first person conjugation used). I have no problems with that, or with the whole idea of evangelism, for that matter. In my opinion, some people are called to be active, preaching evangelists, while others are destined to be more subtle, quiet examples for others to follow if they wish. You seem to wish to follow the direct example of Paul; more power to you! I wish to follow the example of Mary, and be as humble, full of faith, and supportive of my loved ones as possible... *without* the added element of verbal/physical proselytizing. Please understand: we're *BOTH* evangelizing; we're just going about it in two different ways. You proclaim loudly, and with strength; I proclaim softly, by example. There is no basis for either of us criticizing the other on this point, Scripturally, or otherwise. I *do* feel called to evangelize... and I am doing so. The mere fact that my method may not be as flambuoyant as others is no reason to dismiss "evangelism by example" as non-evangelism. ---- Take care! Sincerely, Brian Coughlin oracle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
x7mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (05/28/91)
Not too long ago I posted the question (paraphrased):
Where in the Bible does it say that not following Jesus by
name implies not saved?
I would like to thank all those who took the trouble to answer
that question, usually with numerous biblical references. Many
missed the point: the references either showed that Jesus is the
sole source of salvation or that following Jesus implies
salvation. The first I accept easily, since to deny that would
trivialize the importance of the crucifixion. I however maintain
that His salvation is for all, not just Christians. The second
does not imply the converse, which is my question.
I acknowledge that Mk 16:15 answers my question. At the same
time, I do not think this passage alone is watertight: Jesus
addressed this towards the Apostles alone; how can we assume that
this applies also to our own evangelization efforts? Do we claim
the same status the Apostles were given? Why?
This is important especially in the cases where we witness to
Jesus in ways that insult an unbeliever's intelligent or when we
evangelize poorly, making a poor impression. Are the unbelievers
also condemned? What about those who were never evangelized?
Those who quote Acts 2:38 should realize the context of the
situation. The people were troubled; perhaps their hearts were
already set afire by the Holy Spirit. I wouldn't go on and say:
"Well, here is an exhaustive list of possible ways to salvation.
First you can have a chat with Buddha, or you can join us or...".
It's like answering "The house is on fire! What must we do?" the
same way. Rather, you would say something like "Pour water on
it!" when in fact you could also use a fire extinguisher, call
the fire brigade, scoop sand on it, let it burn out, etc.
Before we write off non Christians, I would like to pose the
following line of reasoning:
1. Jesus is God.
2. Many non-Christians believe in and worship God.
3. Therefore they also believe in Jesus.
They may not believe that our romanized spelling J-E-S-U-S
represents God. They may not believe in the intellectual notion
that Someone can be both Man and God. They may even reject that
notion completely, but this does not deny their faithfulness to
God if they follow Jesus' commandments to love. They follow, not
reject God. It would be unfair to say that they reject God simply
because they do not believe what we tell them is true.
This next line of reasoning I do not claim credit for, and will
quote in part, shortening to save space:
1. There is only one God.
2. Jesus Christ is God.
3. God is the Creator of all that is good. But Jesus is God.
Therefore all that is good is from Jesus.
4. But we do see goodness in people of other faiths. To deny this
is to be willfully blind.
5. Therefore whatever good we find in whomever it may be, comes
from Christ Jesus.
6. If no 5 is true then Jesus Christ must be working in
Christians as well as in people of other faiths since all good
comes from Him and goodness is found in people of other faiths.
7. This means that Christians cannot limit Christ, the Son of
God's salvic work to Christians only. [Acts 11:17]. God works in
everyone (Acts 14:16-17).
8. If Christ were to be limited to Christians, He would no longer
be God but the president of Christians since He could only save
Christians and would be only for Christians. If we were to claim
that only baptised Christians could be saved, we would actually
be denying Christ's divinity.
9. In defending athe belief that people of other faiths can be
saved, we are in fact defending Christ's divinity. [note *can* be
saved, not *are*].
I realize that I have posed a number of questions again. I will
refrain from posting any further rebuttals, though I will
continue to read replies as long as my account lasts (not much
longer). I am particularly interested in explanations on why God,
who sacrificed his own Son that others may live, would impose
such conditions on salvation ie that we must believe in Jesus'
actual name. Why would a loving God damn people who fail to
acknowledge His Son due to intellectual barriers but who
otherwise lead righteous, loving lives (which indirectly show
their allegiance)? Remember Matthew 25:31.
In Christ,
Chris
[As you presumably know, some read as Mk 16:15-16 as condemning only
those who do not believing after having heard the Gospel. In past
discussions it has been fairly common for Christians to believe that
it's possible for people to be saved if they have never heard the
Gospel (and I claim, if they have heard it in a context that turns it
into a lie, as was all too often in Christian dealings with Jews).
--clh]ronnin@dsp.analog.com (Ronnin Yee) (06/02/91)
The question is: Why is Jesus essential to Salvation?
One of the questions that we need to answer first is, "What is Salvation?"
The first thoughts that come to mind are "going to heaven", "staying out
of hell", and "never dying". Yes, these are true but there is a little
more to it than this.
Let me sugguest that to live forever in our current state is not heaven,
but could even become a living death.
"The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit
is life and peace;" (Romans 8:6, NIV)
We are confronted by two choices: (1) To submit ourselves to God and God's
ways and, in so doing, live, or (2) continue to rebel against God and do
what we want to do.
"the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor
can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God."
(Romans 8:7,8 NIV)
Salvation is God enabling us to be cleansed, become obedient to Him and
become like Him in character. Christ's death has made cleansing possible.
The Holy Spirit has opened the way so that we may learn to be obedient to
God and "be transformed" to become more like Him. However, we must decide
to turn from our own ways and follow God's. This is the only way to escape
from the bonds of sin and be reconciled to God. God can not give salvation
to those who rebel against Him because obeying Him, being like Him, being in
His presence IS SALVATION!
(Can you imagine being in His unobstructed presence being the way you are now
and unrepentant? =8-| )
So what does this have to do with Jesus?
' Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among
you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father ..." '
(John 14:8,9)
There are many arguments I could use, but let me give a simple one. Anyone
who studies Jesus and doesn't see the Father, doesn't know the Father. Jesus
said, "If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." Conversely,
if you really knew the Father, you would recognize Jesus also.
How can other religions lead to salvation if they describe it as a different
place? Someone who denies Jesus Christ is not heading in the direction He
represents. Someone who denies Jesus, yet hopes to be with God, does not
know God and in trying to please (appease) God, will not get any closer to
Him. To follow Jesus is the only Way.
(As for love, Jesus says, "Love your enemies." Remember when God is talking
about love, He is talking about LOVE (agape) -- unconditional and unfailing.
By very definition, impossible for man {prereq: infinite strength, boundless
patience}. It can only come from God.)
"... His sheep will follow Him because they know His voice." (John 10:5)
-ry
ronnin.yee@analog.com
!uunet!analogdv!ronnin.yee
[Few Christians claim that other religions lead of themselves to
salvation. The "liberal" claim is rather that Jesus can speak to
people directly in their heart, despite whatever misunderstandings
they may have. --clh]