[soc.religion.christian] ENDTIMES STUDY

jhaynes@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (05/17/91)

Before jumping into this study please keep an open mind.  I hope Jesus does
come in my life time, but if he doesn't then I know I should continue to live
as if he were coming today.


    Revelation 20:1-3  1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having
                      the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great
                      chain.
                       2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is
                      the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
                       3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it
                      over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore
                      until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must
                      be set free for a short time. (NIV)

    Satan's short time is at hand and the Church is at it's final stage of
    the prophecies of God.  God himself will appear before all the nations and
    cast judgment on them all.  The signs are clear to those who will seek the
    truth in God's word.

    The scriptures you are about to read will show the evidences that we are
    in the end times and the redeptions of God's people is at hand.

    Daniel 12:1-10  1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects
                   your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress
                   such as has not happened from the beginning of nations
                   until then. But at that time your people-- everyone whose
                   name is found written in the book-- will be delivered.
                    2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will
                   awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and
                   everlasting contempt.
                    3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the
                   heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the
                   stars for ever and ever.
                    4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the
                   scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and
                   there to increase knowledge."
                    5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two
                   others, one on this bank of the river and one on the
                   opposite bank.
                    6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was
                   above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before
                   these astonishing things are fulfilled?"
                    7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of
                   the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward
                   heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever,
                   saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When
                   the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all
                   these things will be completed."
                    8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, "My lord,
                   what will the outcome of all this be?"
                    9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are
                   closed up and sealed until the time of the end.
                   10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but
                   the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked
                   will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
                   (NIV)

    Matt 24:21-25 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from
                  the beginning of the world until now-- and never to be
                  equaled again.
                  22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would
                  survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be
                  shortened.
                  23 At that time if anyone says to you, `Look, here is the
                  Christ!' or, `There he is!' do not believe it.
                  24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and
                  perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--
                  if that were possible.
                  25 See, I have told you ahead of time. (NIV)

    Looking to the prophecy in Daniel 12 the word wise and knowledge are used.
    The word wise refers to the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus, and the word
    knowledge refers to the wisdom of this world were people will travel to
    increase worldly knowledge.  Those who are wise will understand what is
    happening Jesus warns us that there will be and infact are false christs
    and prophets in the world today to deceive even the elect if that were
    possible.  This is the powerful delusion that God himself send to deceive
    thought who will not look to the bible for the true meaning.

    The next set of scriptures will show that a believe can come to know the
    truth in the scriptures if he continues to seek a understanding through
    the guides of the Holy Spirit.

    John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send
               in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of
               everything I have said to you. (NIV)

    John 16:12-15 12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now
                  bear.
                  13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide
                  you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will
                  speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet
                  to come.
                  14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and
                  making it known to you.
                  15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I
                  said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it
                  known to you. (NIV)

    1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in
                you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his
                anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing
                is real, not counterfeit-- just as it has taught you, remain
                in him. (NIV)

    Here we see that Jesus tells us that when the Holy Spirit comes to us that
    he will guide us into ALL TRUTH not partial truth but ALL TRUTH.  Satan is
    the one who gives us partial and uses the word of God yes for Satan used
    the word against Jesus to try to deceive him.

    We get this truth through the Word of God and no place else.  This can only
    come about through constant use.

    1 Peter 2:2-3  2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that
                  by it you may grow up in your salvation,
                   3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. (NIV)

    Hebrews 5:12-14 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers,
                    you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of
                    God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
                    13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not
                    acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
                    14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use
                    have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
                    (NIV)

    1 Corinthians 2:10-16 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The
                          Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of
                          God.
                          11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man
                          except the man's spirit within him? In the same way
                          no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit
                          of God.
                          12 We have not received the spirit of the world but
                          the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand
                          what God has freely given us.
                          13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by
                          human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit,
                          expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
                          14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the
                          things that come from the Spirit of God, for they
                          are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand
                          them, because they are spiritually discerned.
                          15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all
                          things, but he himself is not subject to any man's
                          judgment:
                          16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he
                          may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
                          (NIV)

    We are to test everything even the things we believe the Holy Spirit
    is teaching us to be certain that the teaching is from God.  Through
    constant use of the scriptures we can see and test that what we receive
    from God is true.

    Now to look to some of the things the bible says about the end of time and
    what the signs will be.

    Luke 21:25-28 25 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the
                  earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the
                  roaring and tossing of the sea.
                  26 Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is
                  coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
                  27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a
                  cloud with power and great glory.
                  28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift
                  up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
                  (NIV)

    Gen 1:14-19 14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the
                sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as
                signs to mark seasons and days and years,
                15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give
                light on the earth." And it was so.
                16 God made two great lights-- the greater light to govern the
                day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the
                stars.
                17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the
                earth,
                18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from
                darkness. And God saw that it was good.
                19 And there was evening, and there was morning-- the fourth
                day. (NIV)

    Here we see that Jesus speaks of signs in the sun, moon, and stars and
    using the bible to get an understanding of this we see in Genesis that the
    sun, moon, and stars are to mark of seasons.  I believe that we will see
    unseasonable weather around the world.  This are some end time signs to
    look for.

    Let's look to other places in the bible to see others signs to look out
    for.

    Luke 21:10-11 10 Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation,
                  and kingdom against kingdom.
                  11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences
                  in various places, and fearful events and great signs from
                  heaven. (NIV)

    Matt 24:7-8  7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against
                kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various
                places.
                 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. (NIV)

    Romans 8:18-25 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth
                   comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
                   19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of
                   God to be revealed.
                   20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by
                   its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected
                   it, in hope
                   21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its
                   bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of
                   the children of God.
                   22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in
                   the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
                   23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits
                   of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our
                   adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
                   24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is
                   no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
                   25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for
                   it patiently. (NIV)

    Here are a few other signs that show us that we are closer to the end.
    Nations rising against nations and wars and the earth itself is showing
    the signs of decay.  Through the ages though we can see this signs all
    appearing in part but all of them have to be happening at the same
    time.  Such like the prophecy in Daniel where people will travel to
    increase worldly knowledge, the pestilences, earthquakes, and as in birth
    pains they will be more severe and closer together.

    Now we will look to the bible of the signs of the false christs and false
    prophets because this to must be in place for all the other signs to line
    up to show us of the time of the end.

    I believe that through the next set of scriptures you will see that Satan
    will imatate the Church and all of the functions the church had in the
    begin in the first century.  First the scriptures on the early church and
    the imatation church and at the end of the age.

    Mark 16:16-20 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but
                  whoever does not believe will be condemned.
                  17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my
                  name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new
                  tongues;
                  18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they
                  drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will
                  place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
                  19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up
                  into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
                  20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and
                  the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the
                  signs that accompanied it. (NIV)

    Heb 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles,
            and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
            (NIV)

    1 Cor 12:11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he
                gives them to each one, just as he determines. (NIV)

    These three passage clearly state that the signs, wonders, and mircles were
    given to confirm God's word and distributed according to the will of God
    and not by the will of man.

    Acts 2:1-13  1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in
                one place.
                 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came
                from heaven and filled the whole house where they were
                sitting.
                 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated
                and came to rest on each of them.
                 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to
                speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
                 5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from
                every nation under heaven.
                 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in
                bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own
                language.
                 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are
                speaking Galileans?
                 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native
                language?
                 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia,
                Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
                10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near
                Cyrene; visitors from Rome
                11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-- we
                hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"
                12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does
                this mean?"
                13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had
                too much wine." (NIV)

    We can see that on the day of Pentecost that the tongues that were spoken
    were understood by the hears in there own language.

    Acts 2:42-43 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to
                 the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
                 43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and
                 miraculous signs were done by the apostles. (NIV)

    Signs done by the apostles.

    Acts 10:44-48 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy
                  Spirit came on all who heard the message.
                  45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were
                  astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured
                  out even on the Gentiles.
                  46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
                  Then Peter said,
                  47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with
                  water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
                  48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus
                  Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few
                  days. (NIV)

    Tongues are a sign for unbelievers not believers.

    1 Corinthians 14:22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for
                        unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not
                        for unbelievers. (NIV)

    Acts 19:1-6  1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through
                the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some
                disciples
                 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you
                believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that
                there is a Holy Spirit."
                 3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's
                baptism," they replied.
                 4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He
                told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that
                is, in Jesus."
                 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the
                Lord Jesus.
                 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on
                them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. (NIV)

    2 Corinthians 12:12 The things that mark an apostle-- signs, wonders and
                        miracles-- were done among you with great
                        perseverance. (NIV)

    Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were
              the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (NIV)

    In these two verses it tells us that there are ONLY twelve apostles of the
    Lamb.

    1 Corinthians 13:8-13  8 Love never fails. But where there are
                          prophecies, they will cease; where there are
                          tongues, they will be stilled; where there is
                          knowledge, it will pass away.
                           9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
                          10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect
                          disappears.
                          11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I
                          thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When
                          I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
                          12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror;
                          then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part;
                          then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
                          13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love.
                          But the greatest of these is love. (NIV)

    In the text on 1 Corinthians 13 needs to be exmined for the truth of this
    matter on prophecy, tongues, and knowledge.  Prophecy is the truth from
    God of a future event.  Tongues is the ability to speak another man's
    language without prior training in it.  Knowledge is a true reveal about a
    prophecy that is only in part or the fulfilment of the prophecy.  An
    example of knowledge is like the prophecy of the resurrection the old
    testament reveals this true but Paul reveal knowledge of this.  The
    following text reveals this.

    Job 19:25-27 25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he
                 will stand upon the earth.
                 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I
                 will see God;
                 27 I myself will see him with my own eyes-- I, and not
                 another. How my heart yearns within me! (NIV)

    Isaiah 26:19-20 19 But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You
                    who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew
                    is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth
                    to her dead.
                    20 Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors
                    behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his
                    wrath has passed by. (NIV)

    Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some
                to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
                (NIV)

    1 Cor 15:51-54 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep,
                   but we will all be changed--
                   52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
                   trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be
                   raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
                   53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the
                   imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
                   54 When the perishable has been clothed with the
                   imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the
                   saying that is written will come true: "Death has been
                   swallowed up in victory." (NIV)

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant
                            about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the
                            rest of men, who have no hope.
                            14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and
                            so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those
                            who have fallen asleep in him.
                            15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you
                            that we who are still alive, who are left till the
                            coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede
                            those who have fallen asleep.
                            16 For the Lord himself will come down from
                            heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the
                            archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and
                            the dead in Christ will rise first.
                            17 After that, we who are still alive and are left
                            will be caught up together with them in the clouds
                            to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be
                            with the Lord forever.
                            18 Therefore encourage each other with these
                            words. (NIV)

    The knowledge that Paul reveals about the resurrection is that we who are
    still alive will be changed in a flash to immortality.

    Back to 1 Corinthians 13 the text is talking about the word of God when
    it is complete or perfect as the texts states.  For prophecy is God's
    word, tongues are a gift to reveal God's truth in another language and
    knowledge is more truth about God's truth.  This text is clear in saying
    that when this is complete or prefect that prophecy, tongues, and
    knowledge will ceased.  And in contrast, that these three will remain
    after the perfect word of God is here, faith, hope, and love.  Now some
    teach a false doctrine that the passage is speaking about when Jesus
    return but Paul is speaking on prophecy coming to perfection not when
    Christ returns he speaks of Christ return in Chapter 15.  And keeping with
    the text why would we need faith and hope when the bible speaks clearly on
    this.

    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of
                 what we do not see. (NIV)

    Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no
                hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? (NIV)

    There will be no need for hope or faith when Jesus return because we will
    already have obtained what we have put our hope and faith in.

    Now to the false church at the end of the age.

    Matt 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform
               great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-- if that
               were possible. (NIV)

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-12  1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
                           and our being gathered to him, we ask you,
                           brothers,
                            2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by
                           some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have
                           come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has
                           already come.
                            3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for
                           that day will not come until the rebellion occurs
                           and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man
                           doomed to destruction.
                            4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over
                           everything that is called God or is worshiped, so
                           that he sets himself up in God's temple,
                           proclaiming himself to be God.
                            5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I
                           used to tell you these things?
                            6 And now you know what is holding him back, so
                           that he may be revealed at the proper time.
                            7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already
                           at work; but the one who now holds it back will
                           continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
                            8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom
                           the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of
                           his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his
                           coming.
                            9 The coming of the lawless one will be in
                           accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all
                           kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
                           10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those
                           who are perishing. They perish because they refused
                           to love the truth and so be saved.
                           11 For this reason God sends them a powerful
                           delusion so that they will believe the lie
                           12 and so that all will be condemned who have not
                           believed the truth but have delighted in
                           wickedness. (NIV)

    This passage scripture says that countfeit signs, wonders, and mircles
    will proceed Jesus's second coming.

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful
                           workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
                           14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as
                           an angel of light.
                           15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants
                           masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end
                           will be what their actions deserve. (NIV)

    Rev 16:12-15 12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river
                 Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for
                 the kings from the East.
                 13 Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they
                 came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the
                 beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
                 14 They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs,
                 and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather
                 them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
                 15 "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays
                 awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go
                 naked and be shamefully exposed." (NIV)

    The bible reveals to us that this will be a powerful delusion that will
    deceive many but Jesus tells us that the elect will be able to see that
    these men are not from God but of the devil.  Let's see how we are to test
    there teachings and to see if they are from God.

    Matt 7:15-23 15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in
                 sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
                 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick
                 grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
                 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree
                 bears bad fruit.
                 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot
                 bear good fruit.
                 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and
                 thrown into the fire.
                 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
                 21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the
                 kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father
                 who is in heaven.
                 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not
                 prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and
                 perform many miracles?'
                 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away
                 from me, you evildoers!' (NIV)

    Note that their defence is that they thought they were doing these things
    in the name of Jesus and by his authority.  But I believe that Jesus tells
    us that when we see people doing this that Satan's end has come.  This
    delusion will be so powerful that I believe that the people caught up in
    this that they are truly saved.

    Mark 3:23-26 23 So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How
                 can Satan drive out Satan?
                 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom
                 cannot stand.
                 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot
                 stand.
                 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot
                 stand; his end has come. (NIV)

    2 Pet 2:1-3  1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just
                as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly
                introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign
                Lord who bought them-- bringing swift destruction on
                themselves.
                 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way
                of truth into disrepute.
                 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories
                they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging
                over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. (NIV)

    1 Timothy 4:1-5  1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will
                    abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things
                    taught by demons.
                     2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose
                    consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
                     3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain
                    from certain foods, which God created to be received with
                    thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
                     4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to
                    be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
                     5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and
                    prayer. (NIV)

    2 Timothy 4:3-4  3 For the time will come when men will not put up with
                    sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they
                    will gather around them a great number of teachers to say
                    what their itching ears want to hear.
                     4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn
                    aside to myths. (NIV)

    1 Timothy 6:3-5  3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree
                    to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to
                    godly teaching,
                     4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an
                    unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about
                    words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil
                    suspicions
                     5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who
                    have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness
                    is a means to financial gain. (NIV)

    James 1:5-8  5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives
                generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given
                to him.
                 6 But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he
                who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the
                wind.
                 7 That man should not think he will receive anything from the
                Lord;
                 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does. (NIV)

    Doctrine is very important to know it and to see that it agrees with the
    teachings of the bible.  Their are many who just take man for his word and
    do not test what they say.  We need to pay careful attention to see what
    is said is true by the scriptures.  Jesus says to look at the fruit to see
    that they from God the fruit is the fruit of the spirit.

    Gal 5:22-23 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
                kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
                23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is
                no law. (NIV)

    Be careful to look carefully at each teacher who claims to be from God
    because Satan himself masquerades as and angel of light and the
    teachers appear to be minsters of righteousness.

    2 Tim 3:1-5  1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last
                days.
                 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,
                boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents,
                ungrateful, unholy,
                 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without
                self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
                 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather
                than lovers of God--
                 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have
                nothing to do with them. (NIV)

    This to you should test to see if this document conforms to the Word of
    God.  I always pray that this verse for myself.

    2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a
               workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly
               handles the word of truth. (NIV)

    I believe that we are in the end times for the reasons that the false
    church is in the world today and they are performing signs, wonders, and
    mircles and claiming to be from God and many of the T.V. evangelist are
    using them for finacial gain but by there fruits they can and have been
    convicted of there fruits of greed.

    I do believe God answers prayers and that he works in his church today
    through prayer.

    James 5:13-16 13 Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone
                  happy? Let him sing songs of praise.
                  14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the
                  church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name
                  of the Lord.
                  15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person
                  well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will
                  be forgiven.
                  16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for
                  each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a
                  righteous man is powerful and effective. (NIV)

    Put on the full armor of God and test the spirit and see if they are from
    God.

    Eph 6:10-18 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.
                11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your
                stand against the devil's schemes.
                12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but
                against the rulers, against the authorities, against the
                powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of
                evil in the heavenly realms.
                13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the
                day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and
                after you have done everything, to stand.
                14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your
                waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
                15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes
                from the gospel of peace.
                16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with
                which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil
                one.
                17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit,
                which is the word of God.
                18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of
                prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always
                keep on praying for all the saints. (NIV)

    1 Jn 4:1-4  1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the
               spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false
               prophets have gone out into the world.
                2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every
               spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the
               flesh is from God,
                3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from
               God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard
               is coming and even now is already in the world.
                4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them,
               because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in
               the world. (NIV)

    1 Thes 5:21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)

    The bible reveals that these falses teachers will use the name of Jesus.

    2 Cor 11:3-4  3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the
                 serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from
                 your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
                  4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other
                 than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different
                 spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from
                 the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
                 (NIV)

    In conclusion I believe that through constant use of the scripture you
    will see that what is stated above is true and that those who practise the
    prophecy, tongues, and knowledge and also the false sign, wonders, and
    mircles are caught up in the powerful delusion that is from God and if
    they do not come to the truth they will perish.

    Words of Jesus he warns ahead of time.

    Matt 24:24-25 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and
                  perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--
                  if that were possible.
                  25 See, I have told you ahead of time. (NIV)

In His Hands,

Joel A. Haynes

Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." (NIV)

clh you can cut this into part one and two or three if you like.

hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) (05/19/91)

One of the points of your message was that signs accompanied the
apostles, and that the gates in Revelation only had the names of
twelve apostles.  Then you continued to quote the writings of Paul.
Paul was not one of the twelve.  Some people hold to the theory that
Matthias was not God's choice, and that Paul was supposed to be the
twelth apostle.  Yet Paul travelled with another apostle, Barnabas.
Barnabas was not one of the twleve.  Yet he was an apostle.  So we see
that one does not have to be one of the twelve to have a gift.  Also,
look at I Corinthians 14.  These were not apostles, and they exercised
gifts of the Spirit.  I agree with your statement that in the last
days false signs will be shown.  Yet false signs and false apostles
traveled in the Paul's day.  Did that make Paul any less an apostle?
Did that make his gifts or his work any less legitimate.  Even so the
gifts that are exercised in the church today, that are legitimate, are
not from Satan.  There are those who use the name of God and the name
of Christ to make money, and they work against the Lord's will.  But
that does not make those who teach teh truth into liers.

I have a question about I Corinthians 13.  Do we know see God
perfectly?  Do we see him face to face?  Are we more grown-up than
Paul, who had revelations that he was not allowed to share with
mankind (I Corinthians 12.)  Did Paul live to see the cannon put
together.  He would have lived over 250 years.  Paul was looking
forward to seeing Him face to face.  But if this refers to the
Scriptures, then it was not something that Paul would see in his
lifetime.  Was Paul a child, where we are adults?  I think not.  Link
Hudson.

BINDNER@auvm.auvm.edu (05/23/91)

The mention of the twelve is in keeping with revelation as a mysitical
book.  Twelve apostles are used as the new model of the twelve sons
of Isreal (the twelve tribes).  These correspond to the twelve stones
which are found on the walls of the new Jerusalem.  These twelve stones
are the twelve birthstones of the zodiac.  This is an obvious allusion
to astrology.  From this allusion (a as in aardvark, not i as in illusion)
we can conclude one (or both) of two things: 1.  God is the author of
astrology and approves of its use (the middle aged church believed this) and
2. the author of Revelation was knowledgeable in the area of astrology.
If you don't believe me look it up in Rev and crossreference with a jeweler
or an astrologer or book on astrology.

Until I post again,

Peace

Michael

billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) (06/02/91)

In article <May.22.21.16.20.1991.21005@athos.rutgers.edu> BINDNER@auvm.auvm.edu writes:
>The mention of the twelve is in keeping with revelation as a mysitical
>book.  Twelve apostles are used as the new model of the twelve sons
>of Isreal (the twelve tribes).  These correspond to the twelve stones
>which are found on the walls of the new Jerusalem.  These twelve stones
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't have a Bible here at work, but aren't these 12 stones 12 layers
of the foundation of the New Jerusalem (not the walls)???


>are the twelve birthstones of the zodiac.  This is an obvious allusion
>to astrology.  From this allusion (a as in aardvark, not i as in illusion)
>we can conclude one (or both) of two things: 1.  God is the author of
>astrology and approves of its use (the middle aged church believed this) and
>2. the author of Revelation was knowledgeable in the area of astrology.
>If you don't believe me look it up in Rev and crossreference with a jeweler
>or an astrologer or book on astrology.

..or

3) Astrology adopted these stones after Revelation was written (as a
link to "justify" and/or legitimize astrology).

4) God has a sense of humor (see this parallel thread) and used these
stones even though there is no relationship between astrology and
Judaism or Christianity.


BTW: If you check different sources for birthstones, you are likely to
find that not all months have the same stone in the different sources.
Some month have as many as 2 or 3 different stones depending upon which
sources you check.

jclark@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (John Clark) (06/03/91)

In article <Jun.2.01.41.52.1991.16506@athos.rutgers.edu> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
+
+>are the twelve birthstones of the zodiac.  This is an obvious allusion
+>to astrology.  From this allusion (a as in aardvark, not i as in illusion)
+>we can conclude one (or both) of two things: 1.  God is the author of

Have you ever heard of the 'Kabbala'? There is a long tradition of
interpreting Biblical text in terms of some esoteric knowledge.
There has been much crossover from Kabbala, ceremonial magick and
various forms of occultisms.

Of course there are some who would argue that the Revelations writer
was well steeped in Middle Eastern magick practices and was writing
accordingly.

-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu