max_jedroom@oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) (05/17/91)
Forgive me if this has been already discussed... I want to get a hold of information on Campus Crusade. How it works, what it's policies are or theological leanings, it's methods, on what kind of campuses it's usually on, if any specific type, etc. If anyone has information on the college organization, could they please mail back to this address? max_jedroom@oxy.edu I'm familiar with Intervarsity, as their is an organization at my campus strongly affiliated w/IV, but not at all with Campus Crusade, beyond that it's somehow connected with the high-school Campus Life. Thanks in advance, In Christ, Jedidiah [At least at CMU when I was a grad student, Intervarsity was the most "scholarly" of the evangelical campus orgainzations. Their press publishes quite good books, including some high quality reference books. Their organizational strategy seemed oriented at helping Christians deepen their Christian life. Campus Crusade seemed to be oriented more twoards converting people and helping new Christians. At least at CMU, --clh]
lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew) (05/19/91)
max_jedroom@oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) writes: > I want to get a hold of information on Campus Crusade. > How it works, what it's policies are or theological > leanings, it's methods, on what kind of campuses it's > usually on, if any specific type, etc. If anyone has > information on the college organization, could they please > mail back to this address? max_jedroom@oxy.edu Campus Crusade and Intervarsity are heterosexual cults. They bann all lesbian and gay Christians. Once in a rare while they will minister to a person with AIDS, not out of affirmation of that person's worth as a child of god, but as a way of earning credit in heaven on some kind of salvation score card. Guilt is one of their major modes. I first encountered them in the 1950 while I was at a university in the South. They stood squarely behind the segregation of the time. Only when segregation became unpopular did they change. They follow rather than lead. They have never been involved in any of the major social justice issues of our time. Instead, they direct people to a narrow personal salvation, not towards a savior of the whole world. They will not encourage you to read widely in world religions; they will not encourage you to inform yourself of the vast amount of literary scholarship that has been exercised on the bible. They will encourage you to place very intense bible quiz games, and some will even require you to master Hebrew and Greek, but only to ratify received interpretations, not to open yourself to the full body of available interpretations and the full range of texts those skills could allow you to access. If you still want to find them, look in the Directory of Associations in your campus Reference Room. Louie Crew . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu Associate Professor . . . . . . . . . . . . . .lcrew@draco.rutgers.edu Academic Foundations Department . . . . . . . CompuServe No. 73517,147 Rutgers: The State University of New Jersey. . . . . . 201-485-4503 h P. O. Box 30 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201-648-5434 o Newark, NJ 07101 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201-648-5700 FAX Only a dead fish floats with the current.
gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) (05/22/91)
Louie Crew writes:
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Campus Crusade and Intervarsity are heterosexual cults.....<rest
omitted>
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Isn't this just your way of saying that they don't agree with your
theology?
My own experience with Inter-Varsity Christian fellowship, which
occurred during the early '70s, was quite positive. I found the
summer training camps they had to be very enlightening, opening up the
bible to me in a way I hadn't found previously. Their so-called
`inductive' bible studies have become something of a methodological
fad, but I think the principles behind it are good, namely that the
bible should be read as a piece of human literature, with the reader
bringing the same skills and methods to bear as on any other piece of
human literature. The difference being, of course, that the bible is
`authoritative' to those who have Christ as their lord.
I also found that Inter-Varsity was quite open to issues of social
concern. In fact, my own awareness of this aspect of Christianity was
first stimulated by my participation in various Inter-Varsity
functions, including conferences and an `Urban Plunge', which
consisted of a week spent in San Francisco exploring the various areas
where the churches there were working to help the poor and needy. As
a result of this, my roommates and I, at different times, took several
people in off the street to stay with us. (Not to boast about it; in
fact those experiences were, for various reasons, quite humiliating,
but they would never have come about if not for Inter-Varsity.)
While Louis Crew's remarks may have reflected his experiences, it
should be noted that his experiences are almost 40 years old, while
mine are 15 years old. This probably means that neither of us is able
to give an accurate picture of what Inter-Varsity is like now. In my
mind at least, however, it is unfair to characterize Inter-Varsity as
a cult, given the way most people think of cults these days.
--
-Fred Gilham gilham@csl.sri.com muts@fysak.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) (05/26/91)
As a current member of a (european) intervarsity group I have to disagree with the view given in this article. We are not a cult at all; our group is no replacement for the church and people come from a wide range of churches. We do not engage in all activities that are part of the christian life such as the social action you mentioned. That is not because we think it is not necessary, but because as a student group we see our specific goal as group to spread the gospel among students; among those who don't know it yet (evangelism) and among those who already do (bible study for spiritual growth). I do not think that any christian organization has to have *all* characteristics of christian life, but can concentrate on a few because we think there is a task for us here that is not done by the churches. By the way, when you talk about a 'narrow personalized' reading of the bible: it is always important to find a balance between applying the promises from the bible to yourself personally and having a personal relationship with God, and to see the wider meaning in the world and society. Different christians may differ about where this balance lies. Personally I think when the faith loses its personal relationship with Jesus, all good works are fine, but the essence is gone. On the other hand, faith without works is dead. But at Ichthus (name of our IV group) we concentrate on the first, whereas members often are involved in other groups too that -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht muts@fysak.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands
yvonne@well.sf.ca.us (Yvonne Lee) (05/30/91)
[max_jedroom@oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) asked about Campus Crusade and Intervarsity. I commented >At least at CMU when I was a grad student, Intervarsity was the most >"scholarly" of the evangelical campus orgainzations. Their press >publishes quite good books, including some high quality reference >books. Their organizational strategy seemed oriented at helping >Christians deepen their Christian life. Campus Crusade seemed to be >oriented more twoards converting people and helping new Christians. >At least at CMU, --clh] Your assessment of InterVarsity may be true in practice, but I think it would ruffle the feathers of the leadership, because the stated objectives of InterVarsity are: Evangelism, Discipleship, and Missions from a student-lead, student-run approach. Campus Crusade for Christ is different from the high school Campus Life group, which is part of Youth for Christ, International. Youth for Christ is headed by Jay Kessler. The former, founded by Bill Bright, is headquartered in Arrowhead Springs, CA. You should be able to get a statement of faith from them there. At one time, CCC required that their leaders not speak in tongues, or become involved in a church that allowed this, but I don't know whether that's still the case.
muts@fysak.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) (05/30/91)
lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew) writes: >>Not every religious organization needs to be so involved in politics. >>Other functions need to be met. If Campus Crusade is a cult is the >>BSU? Here at Georgia most Crusaders or Baptists. >Of course other functions need to be met; but any religion not involoved >in politics is not involved with polis (people) and thereby risks the >status of cults and other superstitions. Re-read the story of >the Final Judgment. Don't just take my word for it. Re-read the >prophets. But the groups we are talking about do not form a seperate religion, but just groups that emphasize *one* of the goals of christianity. I don't see what is wrong with that. They leave it further to the individual how and if they want to be involved in politics etc. Personally I keep thinking that the relationship between christianity and politics is a difficult and complicated one. You can see already in the new testament how wrong Jesus was understood and how many people politicized his ministry and turned away from Him as they were mistaken about His intentions. Also christianity itself cannot make any compromises, but in politics we have to. Therefore I think one can only derive points of views from the bible and then talk with others about these, but not really do politics as a christian. -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht muts@fysak.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands
pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) (06/07/91)
tblake@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Tom Blake) writes: > math1h3@JANE.UH.EDU (David H. Wagner) writes: >>You can't convince me, BTW, that the Romans perceived Jesus as a political >>threat. >Indeed, the Jews were mounting a resistance effort, and this Jesus person >was teaching things like... "If a man asks you to go with him one mile, go >with him two. If someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn and offer >him your left. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." But what about when he says (paraphrased) "I come not to bring peace, but a sword"? P. -- moorcockheathersiainbankshamandcornpizzapjorourkebluesbrothersspikeleepratchett clive P a u l M o l o n e y "Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the rem james Trinity College,Dublin mind." PMOLONEY%VAX1.TCD.IE@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU vr brownbladerunnerorsonscottcardprincewatchmenkatebushbatmanthekillingjoketolkien
muts@fysak.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) (06/10/91)
credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) writes: >It seems to me that whether someone is fed and housed, or not, depends >on me and people like me. Whether someone enjoys eternal life, eternal >punishment, or any other condition throughout eternity, however, depends >on Almighty God, who is wiser, more powerful, and more merciful than >I am. So I think I should put most of my attention onto things that I >can actually help with. You don't think you can actually help people find God? Then why did God give us the commandment to go out and make all people His disciples? Look at the zeal already portrayed by the apostles in the Bible to spread the gospel. I agree it does not ultimately depend on us, but often it is Gods way to use people to show Himself (only rarely directly by a revelation). It depends on God, but also is our responsibility. (with which I do not mean to say that housing and feeding people is not our responsibility too). -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht muts@fysak.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands