slm9q@cc.usu.edu (Kenneth Dean Hunsaker) (04/25/91)
THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count
the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man;
and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
(Revelation 13:18.)
In Hebrew and Greek, letters were also used as numbers. Each
letter in these languages also has a numerical value. Gematria is
the practice of adding the value of each letter in a word or phrase
and finding a total. The ancients loved such number-word play. Thus
an inscription at Pompeii reads: "I lover her whose number is 545."
This was not the girls phone number scrawled on the bathroom wall
as we might see today. Rather, the letters of her name, if read as
numbers, added up to 545. Many readers assume that the beast
mentioned in Revelation 13 has a that will have the gematric
equivalent of 666.
In symbolism 666 is interpreted as the concentration of
imperfection; the fullness of human pride in independence of and
opposition to God. The number 6 in Greek is the letter "stigma" (a
unique form of the letter S). Stigma means "a mark" especially a
mark made by a brand as burnt upon slaves, cattle, soldiers, or
religious devotees (who branded themselves as belonging to their
gods).
There are a couple of things I would like to comment on before
presenting the filthy list:
First, We are told that the beast has the appearance of the
lamb but it has the voice of a dragon. I take this to mean that
although the beast may imitate righteousness and deceive some, It
is really filled with all manner of wickedness and evil. Many evil
people have partaken of this spirit, although they were probably
not the "beast" John was referring to.
Second, this is at best an unclear passage. I am not afraid of
being damned for not knowing the meaning of a figure that God has
not made clear to us. I want to understand, but If I don't find a
completely satisfying answer, I will leave the book open and be
patient.
Third, Some of what follows is ridiculous, and too large a
portion of it is filled with pride and contentiousness. I would say
that such interpretations disqualify themselves by their very
nature. Silliness, pride and contentiousness are opposites of
wisdom and understanding. The latter are necessary for a correct
interpretation.
Fourth, I tried to add correctly, but I do not know Greek or
Hebrew. I cannot vouch for any accuracy there. Some of what follows
is inaccurate, and some blanks need to be filled in. I have also
included a short list of possibilities that came without the
calculations. I would appreciate any additions, help or
corrections--by post or e-mail.
Lastly, Which ones did I like/dislike? While none of these are
of my creation, I wish Santa Claus was :-). My (serious) personal
opinion is that John's is a dual prophecy. It was fulfilled in his
day by Nero and Domitian, and It will be fulfilled again, before
the second coming of Christ. The examples I disliked most were
those directed at individual churches. These seemed to smack of
hatred and bigotry to me. I decided to include these examples since
that was the original plan: to show how interpretations ought not
to be done. And to point out that hatred and prejudice have no
place in Christian interpretations of the Bible.
-KDH
-----
Nero Caesar.
In Hebrew Nero Caesar was written "QSR NRWN." The numeric value of
each of the letters in Hebrew is as follows:
N = 50
Q = 100 R = 200
S = 60 W = 6
R = 200 N = 50
----- -----
360 + 306 = 666
-----
Domitian Caesar.
Nero and Domitian are famous for their persecution of the
Christians. When Nero committed suicide many people refused to
believe he was really dead and thus emerged the "Nero redivivus"
legends. And from time to time he appeared in 7-Eleven stores
throughout the country--No! No! sorry, that's the Elvis redivivus
legend. Nero redivivus was more like our "Hitler is still alive and
amassing his armies in some secret part of the world." Because of
Domitian's excesses (he was the first Roman Emperor to demand that
he be worshiped as god), his depravity so much like Nero's, and his
persecution of the saints. He was seen by many as Nero redivivus--
who was wounded to death and then healed (Rev 13:3,12). According
to Pythagorean numerology, the "triangular number 666 is the sum of
all the numbers from 1-36 and 36 is the sum of all the numbers from
1-8. Therefore 666 = 36 = 8 = the beast. and Domitian Caesar was
the 8th emperor of Rome (see Rev 17: 10-11).
-----
Domitian Caesar.
John was calculating the numerical value of the legend on the
current coins of Domitian. His full title, found on all coins was
"Imperator Caesar Domitianus Augustus Germanicus." This translates
to the Greek, "Autokrator Kaisar Dometianos Sebastos Germanikos"
This in turn can be abbreviated to "A. Kai. Domet. Seb. Ge."
The sum of this abbreviation is 666.
A K A I D O M E T S E B G E
1 + 20 + 1 + 10 + 4 + 70 + 40 + 5 + 300 + 200 + 5 + 2 + 3 + 5 = 666
-----
The Roman Empire.
The Romans did not use all the letters of their alphabet as numbers
(like the Hebrews and Greeks), they only used six letters:
I,V,X,L,C, and D. The sum of these six letters is 666.
I = 1
V = 5
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
D = 500
-------
666
(Using the letter "M" to represent 1000 is of modern origin.)
-----
Latin (The Roman Empire).
One of the earliest suggestions comes from St. Irenaeus who says
666 refers to the word "Latin." (too bad he wasn't referring to
those latin lessons in school!) He was referring to the Greek word
for latin which is "LATEINOS" which means "the Latin man," or Rome,
or the Roman Empire. (Kind of the flavor of what the word American
means to us.) The sum of the Greek letters in LATINOS is 666.
L A T E N I O S
30 + 1 + 300 + 5 + 10 + 50 + 70 + 200 = 666
-----
Evanthas
Also comes from St. Irenaeus. But, I don't know what it means. Help
anyone?
E V A N TH A S
5 + 400 + 1 + 50 + 9 + 1 + 200 = 666
-----
Teitan
Also comes from St. Irenaeus. Again, I don't know what it means.
Help anyone?
T E I T A N
300 + 5 + 10 + 300 + 1 + 50 = 666
-----
Napoleon Bonapart
"Napoleon Bonapart rendered in Greek is "Nabonaparti." The sum of
the Greek letters is 666.
N A B O N A P A R T I
50 + 1 + 2 + 70 + 50 + 1 + 80 + 1 + 100 + 300 + 10 + 1 = 666*
(* pretend there is another 1 in there?)
-----
Adolf Hitler
If you assign numbers to the English alphabet where A = 100, B =
101, C = 102, etc, the name "Hitler" equals 666.
H I T L E R
107 + 108 + 119 + 111 + 104 + 117 = 666
-----
Joseph Stalin
Stalin's name in Russian is Dzugashvili. Stalin succeeded Trotsky
as the Russian Premier at the age of 49. So, beginning at 49, if
you assign numbers to the English alphabet where A = 49, B = 50, C
= 51, etc, the name "DZUGASHVILI" equals 666.
D Z U G A S H V I L I
52 + 74 + 69 + 55 + 49 + 67 + 56 + 70 + 57 + 60 + 57 = 666
-----
The Catholic Church.
The Greek phrase "He Letana Basileia," refers to the Catholic
Church (literally, "the Latin Kingdom"). The sum of its letters is
666.
H E L E T A N A B A S I L E I
15 + 5 + 30 + 5 + 300 + 1 + 50 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 200 + 10 + 30 + 5 + 10
A
+ 1 = 666*
(* pretend for a moment that H = 15?)
-----
The Pope
"Pope" in the Greek is "Papeiskos." The sum of the Greek letters is
666.
P A P E I S K O S
80 + 1 + 80 + 5 + 10 + 200 + 20 + 70 + 200 = 666
-----
The Pope
Written on The Pope's belt, cap and tiara is the latin title
"VICARIUS FILII DEI" (Vicar of the Son of God). If you drop all
letters that don't double as Roman numerals except for the letter
U which is equivalent to a V. The Roman numerals in the title add
up to 666.
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = 0 F = 0
R = 0 I = 1
I = 1 L = 50 D = 500
V = 5 I = 1 E = 0
S = 0 I = 1 I = 1
----- ----- -----
112 + 53 + 501 = 666
(Depending on how you combine the letters, and whether you use U =
V this phrase can be added as 657, 659, 660, 661, 662, 664, or 666.
The more common title for the pope is VICARIUS CHRISTI (Vicar of
Christ). Which comes nowhere near 666.)
-----
7th Day Adventists
The German name for Adventists is "Adventisten Apocalypsen"
(Apocalypse is another name for the book of revelation). Further
their founder's name, "Helen Harmon White" adds up to 666 if you
assign the English letters to the values the Greek letters had.
H = 0
H = 0 A = 1 W = 0
E = 5 R = 100 H = 0
L = 30 M = 40 I = 10
E = 5 O = 70 T = 300
N = 50 N = 50 E = 5
---- ----- -----
90 + 261 + 315 = 666
Supposedly the initials of the international name of the 7th Day
Adventists (if spelled in Greek) are "UNFVG." This somehow equals
666. (I could not even get it to come close. Suggestions anyone?)
-----
Martin Luther.
"Luther" in the Greek is "Loutherana." The sum of the Greek letters
is 666.
L O U TH E R A N A
30 + 70 + 400 + 9 + 5 + 100 + 1 + 50 + 1 = 666
-----
Mohammed
"Mohammed" in the Greek is "Maometis." The sum of the Greek
letters is 666.
M A O M E T I S
40 + 1 + 70 + 40 + 5 + 300 + 10 + 200 = 666
-----
Ronald Wilson Reagan
Each of his 3 names has 6 letters.
-----
Henry Kissinger
If you assign numbers to the English alphabet where A = 1, B = 2,
C = 3, etc., and then multiply by 6 (the number of years Kissinger
served in office), then "Kissinger" = 666.
K I S S I N G E R
11 + 9 + 19 + 19 + 9 + 14 + 7 + 5 + 18 = 111
111 * 6 = 666
-----
The Cure for Syphilis
The official title for Dr. Ehrlich's discovery of a cure for
Syphilis was 666.
-----
Santa Claus
This beast "deceiveth them that dwell on earth by means of the
miracles which he had power to do." And "as many as would not
worship the beast," by *buying* the right things, "should be
killed" by their children.
If you assign numbers to the English alphabet where A = 1, B = 2,
C = 3, etc., and then multiply by 6 (the devil number!) Santa Claus
= 666.
S A N T A C L A U S
19 + 1 + 14 + 20 + 1 + 3 + 12 + 1 + 21 + 19 = 111
111 * 6 = 666
-----
Other suggestions:
- Caligula Caesar
- Vespasian Caesar
- ultraviolet tatoos (of the number "666" on hands and foreheads)
- ATM cards.
- Bar codes (for pricing scanners)
- Trajan
- Richard Nixon
- The Beatles
- Mikhail Sergeievich Gorbachev (the numerical value of the
Russian letters.)
- Karl Marx
- Leonid Breshnev
- World War I and II
- Hugh Hefner
- Me
-----
Kenneth Dean Hunsaker
slm9q@cc.usu.edudmcclelland@hmcvax.claremont.edu (04/29/91)
The problem with this "method" and, for that matter, all "methods" of identifying the anti-Christ before he (she?) comes is that often its all too easy to pick out a large number of people who are innocent and possibly Christian. It's easy to assign numbers to letters and then multiply that sum to a "magic number" and find the taboo number of 666. It reminds me of the math trick where you learn the name of your future wife through a few simple calculations involving the use of your last name. The "answer" turns out to be Mrs. [Whatever-your- last-name-is]. Real enlighting. Another end result to finding the "Beastie" is that one develops the paranoia/conspiracy syndrome where anyone and everyone could truely be the anti-Christ and soon we're [as Christians] are branded with a new name that only gives us and, more importantly, God a bad name. Let's not fall into the trap that many other groups have done like predicting the end of the world or the return of Christ or even the new and improved way to find your own personal anti-Christ. I believe that the anti-Christ will come, and I believe that, in the end, Jesus will triumph over Satan. But I don't need to waste my time spewing rumors of who the anti-Christ will/was/could be. Is it really that important to us? ------------------------------------------------ Daniel McClelland With much wisdom comes dmcclelland@hmcvax.claremont.edu much sorrow, the more --The Harvey Mudd College knowledge the more grief. Teacher ---------------------------
davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (04/29/91)
To identify who/what is the beast of 666 - the approach I prefer to take is to search the relevent texts for all the criteria by which to identify the beast power of prophecy. 666 is only one item on a long check list. While you might be able get Ronald to add up to 666 he fails on most if not all of the other criteria. So, 666 is hardly the crutial deciding factor by which to ID the beast. Dave (David E. Buxton)
sl87m@cc.usu.edu (The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Ensemble) (05/05/91)
[Kenneth Dean Hunsaker summarized some analyses of 666. In one of them
he listed the letters used by the Romans as numbers, showing that they
added to 666. In doing this, M was disregarded because its use for
1000 is of modern origin. --clh]
Oops. M is *not* of modern origin. In my studies of documents in the C.E.
(main emphasis in the Middle Ages) I've found documents as early as 4th century
that use "M" for 1,000. What is a post-Mediaeval development is the use of "M"
in numbers other than 1,000.
i.e.
_ __ ___ __
M _or_ I = 1,000 II = 2,000 III = 3,000 IV = 4,000 etc.
The use was not extensive, but nevertheless it was used. I'm not sure how early
its use is, but it was used very early.
TZMdavidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) (05/05/91)
In article <Apr.28.18.28.23.1991.20306@athos.rutgers.edu>, dmcclelland@hmcvax.claremont.edu writes: > . . . > I believe that the anti-Christ will come, and I believe > . . . 2 Thessalonians is accepted to be a chapter about the Antichrist. These texts were written in Paul's day. From Paul's perspective in history two things are clear: The Antichrist was a power already becoming established in Paul's day and yet a power not yet revealed, a power whose true character was not yet understood. "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the one who promotes lawlessness, who opposes and exalts himself above all of God's churches, so that he sits as God and head of God's church, show- ing himself that he is God. " (2 Th 2:3,4 ) {church substituted for temple} "For the mystery of lawlessness is A-L-R-E-A-D-Y AT WORK; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. " (2 Th 2:7,8) Already becoming established in Paul's day, but not yet revealed; to be revealed some time before the day of our Lord's return; and destroyed at the time of His coming -- This makes it clear that no singular lifetime can span this time period and represent this power. Clearly the Antichrist is not a singular human being but rather an office of church leadership. This is an office just coming into power in Paul's day and spanning to the end of time. This is a power whose true Antichrist nature is not revealed until some time between these two end points, the time of the Protestant Reformation being a serious consideration. Just because most translations use the word 'temple' (naos), does not mean the word 'church' or 'cathedral' cannot be substituted. The use of the word the semantic of 'temple' is implicated and all other possibilities are ruled out. So, let us see if we can eliminate some of the popular candidates for this infamous role: A Jew as Antichrist - Judaism, rather than being a system getting esta- blished in Paul's day was a system already in existance and already Ronald Reigan or George Bush, as holding the office of the president of the USA - no, the United States makes no claim to early beginnings in Paul's day. What about Nero? -- disqualified because Rome and its emperors were already in power in Paul's day. Rome was a power whose character was already known in Paul's day. What about Martin Luther? -- no, the Lutherin church does not plant its roots in the soil of Paul's day. The Lutherin church was founded dur- ing the Protestant Reformation. Clearly no Protestant church quali- fies. What about New Agers? -- If we site the New Age as having its roots in paganism, then this was a paganism already well established in Paul's day; not in its infancy then. If we insist on a strictly modern con- text for the New Age, then we pull its roots out of Paul's day. Either way we disqualify the New Agers. They may be an Antichrist (elsewhere the Bible sites that there will be many Antichrists), but the New Age is not the Antichrist of 2 Thes 2. Also, no seat of singular leader- ship exists in the quiltwork of New Age. What about your local IRS auditor? Disqualified, and I don't need to explain why the IRS is not the 666 power. What about king Nebuchadnezzar? Archaeology has uncovered medalions of the priests of Babylon where it is clear that two dimensional 666 structures were their intended design. But ancient Babylon was already revealed in Paul's day. In the book of Revelation we see that a power symbolic of Babylon comes into existance. I'd say that 666 is a Babylonian symbolism. In order to con- verge the Antichrist of 2 Thes 2, the 666 power and a symbolic new Babylon all together as one we must identify a symbolic Babylon claiming to have its roots in Paul's day and having adobted many of the systems of Babylon. Also, a system whose true character is not revealed until after Paul's day and some time before Christ returns. Believing that we are in the time of the end I'd say that we should seriously consider that this power has already been revealed. Well, I've uncovered a lot of clues and criteria. But I'll not hand out the answer. Maybe you can figure it out for me. Dave (David E. Buxton)
rons@microsoft.UUCP (Ron STARR) (05/05/91)
Another thing to note in connection with 666 is that it may not be THE number. My old RSV has a note indicating that "other authorities" give the number as 616, as does my copy of the NRSV. Perhaps all the ingenuity expended on 666 is beside the point. Anyone know the textual history?
rrmorris@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Rodney Raym Morrison) (05/07/91)
In article <May.5.00.39.11.1991.29057@athos.rutgers.edu> rons@microsoft.UUCP (Ron STARR) writes: >Another thing to note in connection with 666 is that it may >not be THE number. My old RSV has a note indicating that >"other authorities" give the number as 616, as does my copy >of the NRSV. > >Perhaps all the ingenuity expended on 666 is beside the point. > >Anyone know the textual history? My understanding of the number 666 in Revelation is this: 6 is the number of man (man-made religion - rebellion against the Lord). 666 then, is A SYMBOL of this all-out rebellion against God. The source of this rebellion is the satanic trinity (Antichrist, beast, false prophet). - maybe I should say satan is the source, and the other three are the manifestation of this rebellion upon the earth. Satan always glorifies himself in an attempt to be who God is. That is why he has 'formed' this satanic trinity. Of course he has already lost the battle - he is defeated already, but still he seeks whom he may devour.
cliff@buster.stafford.tx.us (Cliff Tomplait) (05/13/91)
sl87m@cc.usu.edu (The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Ensemble) writes: >[Kenneth Dean Hunsaker summarized some analyses of 666. In one of them >he listed the letters used by the Romans as numbers, showing that they >added to 666. Something that came to me a few days ago (yes, one of my degrees is in Math and I think this kind of stuff is interesting): Using: n ------ \ \ n ( n + 1 ) / i = ------------- / 2 ------ i = 1 so 6x6 ------ \ \ 36 ( 37 ) / i = ----------- = 666 / 2 ------ i = 1 Cliff audi vide tace
cliff@buster.stafford.tx.us (Cliff Tomplait) (05/17/91)
and also,
given: a = 1 b = 2 c = 3 d = 4 ...
6(c+o+m+p+u+t+e+r) = 6(111) = 666rich@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) (05/18/91)
In <May.7.00.41.33.1991.14882@athos.rutgers.edu> rrmorris@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Rodney Raym Morrison) writes: > My understanding of the number 666 in Revelation is this: >6 is the number of man (man-made religion - rebellion against the Lord). >666 then, is A SYMBOL of this all-out rebellion against God. The source of >this rebellion is the satanic trinity (Antichrist, beast, false prophet). >- maybe I should say satan is the source, and the other three are the >manifestation of this rebellion upon the earth. I heard an interesting interpretation of 666 recently. The theory is that it was originally written down as VI VI VI and was subsequently misinterpreted as the roman numeral representation for the number 666. The more sensible interpretation becomes evident with knowledge of the motto of the roman empire (not sure if this is spelled right): vini vidi vichi (I came, I saw, I conquered) abbreviated in those days as VI VI VI. So the mark of the beast would be a reference to militarism or military conquest of some kind. Makes lots of sense to me .. what's scarey is when you consider which is the biggest military power on earth today, and which is capable of bringing on a world-wide catastrophe. Rich
ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer) (05/18/91)
rons@microsoft.UUCP (Ron STARR) writes: >Another thing to note in connection with 666 is that it may >not be THE number. My old RSV has a note indicating that >"other authorities" give the number as 616, as does my copy >of the NRSV. > >Perhaps all the ingenuity expended on 666 is beside the point. > >Anyone know the textual history? There are a small number of manuscripts that support the reading "616". One of the great uncial[*] codices (i.e. Codex Ephraemi), a couple minuscule manuscripts (known to exist in the last century but now lost) and an 8th century Old Latin manuscript. In addition this reading was also known in the patristic writings of Tyconius and Irenaeus[**]. [* Some terminology is found at the end of this message.] [** However, Irenaeus claims that the "666" reading is found "in all good and ancient copies" and is "attested by those who had themselves seen John face to face".] On the other hand, the "666" reading appears in six of the great uncials in which Rev 13.18 appears, all the (existing) minuscules, in the work of several of the church fathers, etc. (There is, btw, a single ninth century Old Latin manuscript that reads the number as "646". But, I believe, this is thought to be a copyist error, caused by confusion with the "fourty" that appears in the next verse. So the best bet is that the "666" is _probably_ correct (i.e. authentic) but that the appearance of the variant reading in manuscripts from a wide variety of backgrounds keeps the reading from being certain. (The greek New Testament edited by Aland, Metzger, et al. --used as the basis for the NRSV-- gives the "666" reading only a "B" [essentially a +1 on a -2,-1,+1,+2 scale] or a "some degree of doubt" rating. (As an aside, the fact that these two different numbers appear in the manuscript tradition is sometimes put forth as an argument in favor of the "Nero" interpretation, 666 and 616 corresponding, respectively, to the Greek ["Neron Caesar"] and Latin ["Nero Caesar"] forms of his name.) And (one last digression, I promise ;), there also appears to be some evidence that there was a Old Latin north African textual tradition (including, for instance that known to Augustine) in which both of these verses (vss 17,18) were merely a marginal note which was later incorporated directly into the text (see, for instance, J. M. Ford's Commentary on _Revelations_). BTW, an excellent book the deals with many (~600) of the more interesting/ troublesome textual problems of the NT is Bruce Metzger's "A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament". Metzger was one of the main editors of the N/RSV and this book was intended to serve as a companion volume to the greek NT mentioned above. Furthermore, Metzger's "The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption and Restoration" (Oxford, 1968) is a fascinating introduction to the whole area of the textual problem of the NT. Cheers Nichael Who-just-loves-this-stuff-in-case-you-hadn't-noticed Cramer [* Some vocabulary. The ancient greek manuscripts are generally separated into three broad groups. 1] The papyri: as the name implies, these were written on papyrus. Such manuscripts are often of great antiquity[***] --and consequently great value in determining the original reading of the NT-- but, due to the fragile nature of the material, they are often fragmentary and very difficult to read. [*** e.g. one fragment, p52, contains a few lines of the fourth Gospel It is typically dated to around 125CE, i.e. within about 100 yrs of Christ's death and within a very few decades of when the Gospel was written.] 2] The great Uncial Codices. The codices were, basically, parchment books (i.e. as opposed to scrolls). "Uncial" refers to the fact the the greek they contained was written in "uncial" or "uppercase" characters. There are some 300 of these Codices containing, in various degrees of completeness, all or parts of the NT. Of these, a half-dozen or so (from approx the 4th to the 8th cent), form probably our most important basis for reconstructing the text of the NT. 3] Minuscules. About the turn of the ninth centuries, the use of minuscule or "lower-case" letters became widespread. There are literally thousands of these manuscripts. Despite their obvious lack of antiquity, these manuscripts can still be important because they may be the repositories of lost textual traditions not otherwise available to us. (Btw, the development of minuscules played an important role in the history of the NT. Because the letters were smaller, manuscripts could be produced more quickly and using less materials; as a consequence they were cheaper and so could be disseminated more broadly.) Old Latin: This refers to the Latin versions of the NT that appeared before Jerome's Vulgate. Most currently existing copies are very fragmentary. Nonetheless, they are very valuable in that they allow us a glimpse back into an period during the early develop of the NT.
marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (MARLATT STUART WARREN) (05/22/91)
>In <May.7.00.41.33.1991.14882@athos.rutgers.edu> rrmorris@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Rodney Raym Morrison) writes: > >I heard an interesting interpretation of 666 recently. The theory is that >it was originally written down as VI VI VI [...] I _knew_ this editor was evil! -- s.w. marlatt <>< and *(:-)
ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer) (05/23/91)
rich@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) writes: >I heard an interesting interpretation of 666 recently. The theory is that >it was originally written down as VI VI VI and was subsequently misinterpreted >as the roman numeral representation for the number 666. The more sensible >interpretation becomes evident with knowledge of the motto of the roman >empire (not sure if this is spelled right): vini vidi vichi (I came, I saw, >I conquered) abbreviated in those days as VI VI VI. So the mark of the >beast would be a reference to militarism or military conquest of some kind. >Makes lots of sense to me .. what's scarey is when you consider which is the >biggest military power on earth today, and which is capable of bringing on >a world-wide catastrophe. > >Rich Rich, First a general note: A primary problem with all of these attempts to find a latin-based solution as to what "666" means is that there is no evidence that latin had anything to do with the source of the book of Revelations. All the copies we have are in greek. Moreover, if it _were_ originally written in another language that language would almost certainly have been aramaic (or, just possibly, hebrew) as there is a good deal of evidence that Revelation was a re-worked Jewish apocalyptic work. wrt this particular solution: While I have a lot of sympathy for the general tone of this interpretation, there are a number of obvious problems: first the spelling (and so the abbreviation) is incorrect; i.e. "vEni, ...". Second, it is simply a quote from the writings of Julius Caesar and is no more the "motto of the Roman Empire" than "four score and seven years ago" is the motto of the United States. In addition, the number is not given as "six six six" but as "six-hundred sixty six". (Btw, "666" _does_ have the interesting property that its representation in roman numeral --"DCLXVI"-- spells out all the characters in descending order.)
st74044@oregon.uoregon.edu (06/02/91)
Here's a fact for all of you people that are trying to figure
out 666. In Belgium right now, there is a supercomputer. There
is a group of many people that want to try this new thing called
a cashless society-- no money. How would this work? Well, they
want to put a tiny computer chip into the palm of your right hand,
and if you don't have a right hand, into your forhead. These chips
have three rows of six numbers each, thus 666. At the store, or
wherever, they will just 'scan' your hand, or forhead, and take
credit away from you instead of money and all these transactions
will be kept on a huge computer, in Belgium, which ironically is
called-the BEAST. I also have heard that the only thing keeping
this from a whole European experiment is the signature of Margaret
Thatcher, who is not a ruler anymore, so go figure. I don't know
how much of this is true, but if christians aren't supposed to
receive the sign, then we would all (the christians) end up starving
to death.
MICHAELB.
[This is clearly an "urban legend". There are certainly efforts at a
cashless society, but all of that I know of involve "smart cards" that
you carry. They're not physically embedded anywhere. The formats
that I know of have a good deal more information than 18 digits.
Perhaps some of our European readers can comment in more detail. If
you're hearing this information from a Christian source, you might
suggest to them that spreading absurd claims is a really bad idea --
it causes Christianity to become a laughingstock. --clh]jclark@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (John Clark) (06/03/91)
In article <Jun.2.01.38.57.1991.16430@athos.rutgers.edu> st74044@oregon.uoregon.edu writes:
+Here's a fact for all of you people that are trying to figure
+out 666. In Belgium right now, there is a supercomputer. There
Oh, no not another...
There is a similar legend about UPC bar codes. For people who are
not aware of the techinques of encoding data and being able extract
that data in very hostile (supermarket checkstands) environments,
the pattern 6 ... 6 ... 6 sounds sinister indeed. But simply, it is
the binary pattern 0110 which allows the data extraction equipment
to calibrate itself to the data which is imbetween the calibration
marks. The 6 is only due to some zeros here and some zeros there and
then representing the 'number' as a binary sequence.
As a matter of fact not all UPC's(there are different categories)
have these particular sequences anyway.
--
John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edutblake@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Tom Blake) (06/04/91)
In article <Jun.2.01.38.57.1991.16430@athos.rutgers.edu>, st74044@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: |>Here's a fact for all of you people that are trying to figure |>out 666. In Belgium right now, there is a supercomputer. There |>is a group of many people that want to try this new thing called |>a cashless society-- no money. How would this work? Well, they |>want to put a tiny computer chip into the palm of your right hand, |>and if you don't have a right hand, into your forhead... To which OFM replies... |>[This is clearly an "urban legend". There are certainly efforts at a |>cashless society, but all of that I know of involve "smart cards" that |>you carry. They're not physically embedded anywhere. The formats |>that I know of have a good deal more information than 18 digits. A book I read some time ago, "What in the World is Going to Happen?" (as I recall), claimed that in California, a billboard had appeared one one side, a charge card, and the caption, "this you lose". On the other, a human hand, and the caption "this you don't". Tattoed across the hand was a number, with eighteen digits, in three groups of six. These two accounts seem very similar, it would seem that any campaign to push such a cashless society would involve a lot of public relations, and probably the employment of a professional public relations firm. I think any decent PR firm faced with marketting such a proposed system would see that a scheme of 18 digits in three groups of 6 wouldn't sell very well. I suspect they'd suggest the addition of a couple of digits and a reparsing at the very least. I for one don't like needles, or knives, or nasty drugs. It would be really hard to get me to implant a microchip in my hand. I suspect I'm not the only person who feels this way, this too would seem to be a real marketting blunder. Let us suppose for a moment that, as others on this board have suggested, "The Beast" was Nero. It's my understanding that when a new Ceasar came to office, his coins were minted. (Bearing his face, and they were considered to be his coins! [Show me the coin in which the tax is paid...]) People would have a tough time doing business without carrying the coin of the realm, now might the coin bearing Nero's likeness, be the mark of the beast? Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton [Oh no, not another one! There's no way I can think of to prove such a billboard never existed in the history of California. But I think we can be sure that such a scheme has never been seriously considered. Among other things, a tatto is (1) not very secure, (2) not very conveniently computer readable, and (3) lacks the potential for storing the amount of information proposed as part of the "smart card" proposals. --clh]
billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) (06/05/91)
In article <Jun.2.01.38.57.1991.16430@athos.rutgers.edu> st74044@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: >Here's a fact for all of you people that are trying to figure >out 666. In Belgium right now, there is a supercomputer. There >is a group of many people that want to try this new thing called >a cashless society-- no money. I first heard this "fact" back in 1978. No doubt it has been in circulation since before then. Bill Gripp
kwilson@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Kent Wilson) (06/05/91)
In article <Jun.2.01.38.57.1991.16430@athos.rutgers.edu>, st74044@oregon.uoregon.edu writes: |>Here's a fact for all of you people that are trying to figure |>out 666. In Belgium right now, there is a supercomputer... [deleted text] |>...in Belgium, which ironically is called-the BEAST. [deleted text] Our moderator writes: |>[This is clearly an "urban legend". There are certainly efforts at a |>cashless society, but all of that I know of involve "smart cards" that |>you carry. They're not physically embedded anywhere. The formats |>that I know of have a good deal more information than 18 digits. |>Perhaps some of our European readers can comment in more detail. If |>you're hearing this information from a Christian source, you might |>suggest to them that spreading absurd claims is a really bad idea -- |>it causes Christianity to become a laughingstock. --clh] I do not have sources before me so please forgive my inability to present "hard evidence" (its been a while since I hear the original story)... As for this supercomputer named the BEAST... I saw a Christian show where this matter was brought up. The host read an article (which I am pretty sure was from a *secular* source) which described this BEAST computer. I believe the only point the host of the show was trying to make was that Europe is moving full-speed ahead into a cashless society (which surely is only a shadow of the Beast's future monetary system requiring a mark, [my opinion]) and that the means, or at least a part of the means, (the BEAST computer) existed to bring it about. I also believe the host was struck (as I was) in the irony (?) of the computers name. Anway... before you dismiss it out of hand you might want to research it a bit (just for the sake of accuracy). As for smartcards and what-not... Sorry Chuck but they are way beyond smartcards. A doctor in Florida (I believe) is waiting for a patent on device which which can be implanted into humans under the surface of the skin. It would make the "mark" a reality. Similar devices have been in use in animals for a while. Kent ===============================================================================
Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca (Desiree Bradley) (06/12/91)
Well, for whatever it's worth from a not particularly knowledgeable person (when it comes to religion), I found it rather interesting that in the Vancouver phone book most of the Federal government phone numbers were 666-...... That was a discovery I'd made when we were having one of our bouts of federal-provincial conflict. Of course, all this was a coincidence. If I have hurt anybody's feelings, I didn't set out to do so. As for my personal views regarding the Second Coming, the end of the world, etc., when I die that will be the end of the world for me. Now, I'm not going into the business of what happens after you die. It's just that when you go to funerals the corpse doesn't sit up and start chatting.