gfs@icd.ab.com (06/07/91)
The May 25, 1991 message from our Lord through Mary at Medjegorje: Dear children, Today I invite all of you who have heard my message of peace to realize it with seriousness and live love in your life. There are many who think that they are doing a lot by talking about the messages but do not live them. Dear children, I invite you to life, and to change all the negative in you, so that it all turns into positive and life. Dear children, I am with you, and I desire to help each of you to live, and by living to witness to the Good News. I am here, dear children, to help you and to lead you to heaven. In heaven is the joy through which you can already live heaven now. Thank you for responding to my call. Messages addressed to the whole world are given on the 25th of each month. An information network of volunteers has been set up to help spread information. To hear the most recent monthly message call one of the following phone numbers: (ALABAMA)(205)-MOM-MARY (CALIFORNIA)(415)-321-MARY (OHIO)(614)-283-6338 (NY)(516)-887-MARY A brief background: Mary has been appearing daily to 6 young people, by name Mirjana, Marija, Ivan, Ivanka, Vicka and Jacov, in Medjegorje, Yugoslavia since June 24, 1981. Their ages ranged from 10 to 17 years old. The apparitions last from a few minutes to a half hour. Mary talks to them, and they to her, in conversation. Mary teaches and instructs them to pray and helps the young people to grow in holiness and love of God. The visionaries ask questions for themselves and for visitors. The apparitions still continue to this day, but Mary has said they will not continue forever. The visits have a definite purpose to teach the world what we need to find the path back to Jesus, God. Mary calls us to pray, fast, convert our hearts, and accept God to live in our heart and to live this peace in our heart and love others with the love God gives us. She has said she is here to help us to do this. Apparitions and signs are given by God because so many in the world do not believe. Mankind is living in a time of great danger to itself, and the need for the whole world to convert is most pressing. The world needs to convert to be saved from destruction. This is God's great Plan, to bring about the conversion of the world to love. Love of God and love of each other. Your Father will create Love. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- References: I highly recommend a book that contain the actual transcription of the messages: Above all about Medjegorje, it is by far better to read Mary's words, the messages themselves, than any other book about Medjegorje. After the Bible, I count this book the most important I have ever read. "Words from Heaven" c1990 Saint James Publishing, P.O. Box 380244 Birmingham Alabama 35238-0244 -------- The other book contains interviews with the visionaries themselves, Mirjana, Marija, Ivan, Ivanka, Vicka and Jacov. They describe, in their own words, how they best understand the meaning of the messages. A powerful book. "Queen of the Cosmos" c1990 Jan Connell, Paraclete Press, Orleans Massachusetts. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another book, which you may find particularly helpful is from a Protestant author. Medjegorje is not 'just for Catholics', although many seem to think it is a 'Catholic thing'. Wayne Weible, MEDUGORJE: THE MESSAGE. I don't have the publisher handy, although the local Christian bookstore here has this book on the shelf. Another excellent book, which is a small book (I like small books since you can read them at about one sitting and get the gist of the message) is : LEARNING FROM MEDJUGORJE by Fr. Rene Laurentin. Publisher: The Word Among Us Press, P.O. Box 369 Gaithersburg, MD 20877. This book is excellent since in 80 small pages it takes you from ground zero, having never head anything, through the background of the childen, some history of the 10 years, and a very very good section on WHY, what the point of the lessons and messages is. If you were to get only one book, and wanted to start from the beginning, and not have too difficult reading, I would recommend this book. -------------------- I regret to say that I am changing jobs, and will be losing access to usenet, at least temporarily. I encourage someone else to call the phone number monthly and post the message here. The June 25 message will be the 10 year anniversary of when all of this started on June 25, 1981. I expect perhaps a special message. Sincerely, In Christ Greg Shay
gerhard@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Gerhard Fohler) (06/10/91)
gfs@icd.ab.com writes: >The May 25, 1991 message from our Lord through Mary at Medjegorje: May I remind you that this group is soc.religion.christian, the emphasis placed on _christian_! Gerhard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Address: email: gerhard@vmars.tuwien.ac.at Gerhard Fohler Treitlstrasse 3/182/1 Institut fuer Technische Informatik FAX: + 43 1 56 91 49 Technical University of Vienna Phone: + 43 1 58 801 / 81 69 A-1040 Vienna Austria/Europe
jhpb@garage.att.com (Joseph H Buehler) (06/10/91)
I got a solicitation in the mail recently for a Catholic magazine (Fidelity). It was quite interesting, because of what it said about Medjugorje. It didn't come right out and say it, but it led me to believe that the Vatican is about to issue a condemnation of Medjugorje. Here is an excerpt from the letter: The Medjugorje story is fast coming to a close. The negative judgement of the Yugoslavian bishops has already been leaked to the press. It is going to be followed by a more extensive and explicit statement which will appear soon in L'Osservatore Romano. Then the whole thing will be a chapter in Church history. A sad chapter, but history nonetheless. Anyone know anything more?
jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jonathan A Bishop) (06/11/91)
gerhard@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Gerhard Fohler) writes: >gfs@icd.ab.com writes: >>The May 25, 1991 message from our Lord through Mary at Medjegorje: >May I remind you that this group is soc.religion.christian, the >emphasis placed on _christian_! Last time I checked, myself and 100% of the Catholics I know were Christian... If you feel the urge to flame "non-Christian" postings, go after the Lilith thread. (To those participating in the Lilith discussion: the above was not intended to say that your thread is misplaced in this group.) -------- jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
billy@tcom.stc.co.uk (Billy Khan) (06/11/91)
I am very concerned about this sort of thing and as a christian find these 'apparitions' of Mary, very dodgy indeed. Please explain why you expect Mary to guide you rather than Jesus speaking directly through your congregation. Drew.
mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell) (06/11/91)
In article <Jun.9.14.38.23.1991.25028@athos.rutgers.edu> gerhard@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Gerhard Fohler) writes: >The May 25, 1991 message from our Lord through Mary at Medjegorje: May I remind you that this group is soc.religion.christian, the emphasis placed on _christian_! Whatever else one may believe about the events ad Medjegorge, all involved are most certainly Christians. -mib
jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jonathan A Bishop) (06/12/91)
billy@tcom.stc.co.uk (Billy Khan) writes: > I am very concerned about this sort of thing and as a christian >find these 'apparitions' of Mary, very dodgy indeed. Please explain why >you expect Mary to guide you rather than Jesus speaking directly through >your congregation. We certainly don't "expect" her to. She appears at the bidding of the Father and Jesus, not us. I understand your point; Jesus is the intercessor between humanity and God, not Mary or anyone else. Mary, though, is humaand cares for her fellow humans. In previous apparitions she has expressed sorrow at the failure of the world to accept the Gospel and hopes that her message might bring repentance. Could Jesus do the same thing? Certainly. Above all, please understand that Catholics do not in any way worship Mary. We remember her because she is the Mother of God, but she is not divine. I realize this does not help much; if you desire further information, I would suggest finding a Catholic book on the subject. Unfortunately, many non-Catholic books are not objective or thorough and, sadly, many Catholics have misconceptions about Marian doctrine. -------- jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
MNHCC@cunyvm.bitnet (06/14/91)
<< I am very concerned about this sort of thing and as a christian
find these 'apparitions' of Mary, very dodgy indeed. Please explain why
you expect Mary to guide you rather than Jesus speaking directly through
your congregation.
Drew.>>
You have missed the point. Our Lord Jesus Christ can speak to us in
many ways. One of them is by sending the Virgin Mary or some other
saint to deliver a message. It is not a matter of one or the other,
or of "rather than". The question is whether Jesus, who is sovereign,
has chosen to send her to Medjegorge. As an earlier posting indicated,
the authorities of the Catholic Church are very skeptical about
whether these alleged apparitions are truly from God. However, the
question remains whether the Lord did send her, not whether He could
have.
Marty Helgesenanonymous@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (06/15/91)
In article <Jun.11.22.47.01.1991.24044@athos.rutgers.edu>, jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jonathan A Bishop) writes: > [Information about Catholic devotion to Mary deleted.] > I realize this > does not help much; if you desire further information, I would suggest finding > a Catholic book on the subject. Unfortunately, many non-Catholic books are > not objective or thorough and, sadly, many Catholics have misconceptions about > Marian doctrine. > Alan Schreck, associate professor of theology at the Franciscan University of Steubenville in Ohio, presents a clear and cogent explanation of the Catholic view of Mary in his book _Catholic and Christian: An Explanation of Commonly Misunderstood Catholic Beliefs_ (Ann Arbor: Servant Books, 1984). For the Catholic Church's official declaration on Mary, one should consult Vatican II's _Dogmatic Constitution on the Church_, also known as _Lumen Gentium_. ************************************************************************ * Liz Broadwell (broadwel@penndrls.upenn.edu) * * * Department of English * Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam * * The University of Pennsylvania * * ************************************************************************
90babcock@gw.wmich.edu (06/15/91)
billy@tcom.stc.co.uk (Billy Khan) writes: >Please explain why you expect Mary to guide you rather than Jesus >speaking directly through your congregation. jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jonathan A Bishop) writes: > We certainly don't "expect" her to. She appears at the bidding of the > Father and Jesus, not us. I understand your point; Jesus is the intercessor > between humanity and God, not Mary or anyone else. Mary, though, is humaand > cares for her fellow humans. I should like to say that Mary was indeed human. But also that she was and is the first christian. Mary spent thirty years with her Son. Indeed she would know His message better than any. She fed him, nursed him, and taught him. Perhaps it is her gospel to come to the world through apparitions. We must understand that God chose Mary and placed His need in her. God never has need unless He wills it. He chose to need her. What God needs we all need. Mary is the prototype of the Church. She is in her own way the spouse of God. "Honor thy Father and thy Mother." She is for all time The Mother of God. Christians will always be concerned about the life of humanity. The Body of Christ, which is mystical and encompasses anyone who will ever come to the Father, will always struggle until all of its members are free of sin. We all are called to help one another, and death shall not separate us from that sacred duty. We indeed say that Mary may pray for us, that she who is filled and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost does have influence. She has touched the Shekinah! She is one with the will of God. It is the will of Christ that we share in one anothers salvation, that is why we minister. We are temples, we are partakers of the divine plan. We all have certain influences, but we believe Mary to be special in that plan, for she is chosen from all space and time to be The Blessed Virgin, Mother of God. She magnifies the Lord. God will be glorified if we exalt in His masterpiece which is Mary. Jeff Babcock Western Michigan University
psburns@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (MAUREEN BURNS) (06/15/91)
In article <Jun.11.22.47.01.1991.24044@athos.rutgers.edu>, jabishop@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jonathan A Bishop) writes... >billy@tcom.stc.co.uk (Billy Khan) writes: > >please understand that Catholics do not in any way worship Mary. We remember >her because she is the Mother of God, but she is not divine. It is my opinion, having spoken with a few devout Catholics who hold Mary in such high esteem, that the issue is not whether they think of her as divine, but rather they think of her as more approachable than Jesus, therefore more worthy of their affection, attention, prayers and yes, even worship. I'm not sure why they think of her as more approachable. Worship is great esteem, honor and reverence paid to a sacred being or object. In Scripture, after the Isrealites were led out of Egypt, and they worshipped the golden calf, certainly they did not think of it as divine. But they ascribed to it the characteristic of "sacred", and chose to pay homage to it. Perhaps they too thought of it as more approachable, being incapable of pronouncing judgement on them. They knew their actions and attitudes would anger a righteous God, and were fearful of the judgement which they knew would await them, so they chose to create something which offerred a more palatable option. But Jesus is not unapproachable. He is in love with his creation, and desparatly wants to have relationship with us. We simply need to accept his invitation. Maureen