[soc.religion.christian] The New Birth

NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu (06/07/91)

                       THE NEW BIRTH
                       =============


Someone was asked why he preached so often on, "Ye must be born
again."  He answered, 'Because you must be born again.'  Have YOU
been born again?  Without it you have no hope of escaping the
terrors of hell or of enjoying the glories of Heaven.  Jesus
said, "Ye must be born again."  (John 3:7)


What The New Birth Is Not
-------------------------

1.  It is not religion.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nicodemus was a Pharisee, a very strict religionist.  He
celebrated the Passover, paid tithes, said prayers, brought
sacrifices, tried to keep the law.  And it was to HIM the Lord
Jesus said, "Ye must be born again."  Law keeping, going to
church, being religious, joining a church, being baptized, living
up to a religious creed will not save you.  There will be many in
hell who did all of these things.  Will you?  Ye MUST be born
again.

2.  It is not morality.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You may try to keep the golden rule, pay your bills, be a good
neighbor, keep out of jail, live a clean moral life, but that
won't save you.  You moral folks, you law-abiding citizens, must
be born again or be lost forever.

  It is not recorded that our Lord said, "Ye must be born again"
to cowardly Pilate, or to two-faced, hypocritical Judas.  Why?
Because you would say, 'I know miserable hypocrites like Judas,
and men like Pilate need to born again, but I'm not like them.  I
wouldn't betray Christ with a kiss after professing to be His
friend.  I wouldn't order Jesus to be beaten and then turn Him
over to a howling blood-thirsty mob to be crucified.  Gangsters,
thugs, adulterers, whoremongers, liars, drunkards, gamblers need
to be born again, but not I.  I'm all right.'

  My friend, do you realize that God's Son spoke these words on
the new birth to a man who was doing his best to gain Heaven?
Without a doubt he was neither a crook, drunkard nor gambler.  He
was a true husband, a good neighbor, a man of clean morals, and
religious.  If he needed to be born again, so do you.  How do you
expect to make it to Heaven without being born again if Nicodemus
couldn't?

3.  It is not reformation.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Even if you would quit all your meanness, that would not be the
new birth.  Your trouble is not on the outside, but on the
inside.  You don't need exterior decoration, but interior
regeneration.  Satan wants you to rest in a false peace.  I warn
you in Jesus' Name, don't be satisfied unless you are sure you
have been born again.  Without it you are as lost as the heathen
who bows before his hideous idols.


What The New Birth Is
---------------------

1. It is a mystery you can't explain, but a reality no
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
man can explain away.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it
goeth:  so is everyone that is born of the Spirit."  (John 3:8)
Just as Nicodemus could not understand or explain the wind, so no
man can understand or explain the new birth.

  But, the wind is a reality no man can explain away.  Only a
fool would say, 'I don't believe in the wind.  I have never seen
it, I can't understand it, so there just isn't any such thing as
a wind.'  Many Bible-rejecting, faith-destroying 'explainers' are
denying the reality of the new birth.  What they can't grasp with
their little finite minds they say just doesn't exist.  They say
the new birth is just an 'emotional experience.'  When they get
through explaining the new birth there isn't anything left to it.

  But Thank God, no matter what the infidels and modernists say,
the new birth is a reality no man can explain away!  Ask the man
who has been born again if there is anything to it.

  See the wind moving the big limbs of an oak.  Read how a wind
will tear a house to splinters.  Only a fool would deny the
reality of wind!  You cannot see the Holy Spirit.  You cannot
explain Him.  But see His mighty power make the harlot pure, the
liar honest, the drunkard sober, the blasphemer pray, and then
try to deny the reality of it.

  Someone has said that the new birth is not something that needs
to be explained, but to be experienced.  If you have not had the
experience, the explanation would do you no good, and if you have
had the experience, you don't need the explanation.

2.  It is the work of God by which a poor, lost, guilty,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hell-deserving sinner who receives the Lord Jesus receives a new
nature, becomes a child of God and begins a new life.  It is a
second birth, a spiritual birth.

  The physical life begins by birth.  The spiritual life begins
the same way--not by joining a church and becoming religious.
You cannot JOIN the family of God, you must be BORN into it.
Someone has said, 'You can't make a Christian out of anybody.'
True, Christians are not made, they are born.

  A birth is the coming into being of a new life which has the
nature of its parents.  When you were born the first time you
were made a partaker of the old nature, the sinful nature we all
received from Adam.  When you are born again you become a
partaker of the divine nature.  "To an inheritance incorruptible,
and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for
you, (II Peter 1:4).  Is this true of you?  DO YOU have the
divine nature?

  No matter what kind of a religious profession you have made, no
matter how good a person you may be morally, unless you have been
made the partaker of the divine nature, you are not saved.  God
gives you this new nature the moment you receive His Son.  It is
instantaneous.  You can no more be born by degrees than you can
shoot a firecracker by degrees.

  When you are born again you begin living a new life.  That is
what happened when you were born the first time, you began living
a life you had never lived before.  You made a profession of
salvation, but was there any difference in your life after that?
Don't rest in a shallow profession.

  Some think they are going to Heaven just because they went
forward in a meeting.  Be sure you are born again.  There may be
a more spectacular change in the life of one who is a drunken,
railing blasphemer, but even in you who have not been down deep
in sin, there is bound to be a change when you are born again.
There will be a new attitude towards the Lord Jesus Christ, His
Word, His people, and a new attitude towards prayer.

  Are you SURE you have been born again?  You may not know the
exact day or hour you trusted Christ, but you should be able to
say, 'I know NOW I am born again.'  If you are not certain about
this most solemn matter I beg of you to tell the Lord Jesus that
you receive Him now.  Then read John 3:36 and believe it.  "He
that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life."


Why You Must Be Born Again
--------------------------

1.  Because the Lord Jesus Christ said so.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That ought to settle it.  Why argue about it when He Who is the
Son of God says you must be born again?  He ought to know.

2.  Because you have a sinful nature.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The nature we all receive from Adam is fallen, corrupt, totally
depraved.  God says the heart of man is deceitful above all
things, and desperately wicked.  (Jeremiah 17:9)  With this old
nature you could not enjoy yourself in Heaven.  If you can't find
any pleasure in a prayer meeting now, how do you expect to be
able to enjoy Heaven hereafter.  Heaven is a holy place.  When
you are born again God gives you a holy nature that you might
enjoy yourself in Heaven, a holy place.  I've read that over 85
times the New Testament refers to the fact of a new life being
imparted to man.

3.  Because you cannot save yourself.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves:  it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any many
should boast."  (Ephesians 2:8, 9)  "Not by works of
righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he
saved us," (Titus 3:5).  Now don't skip lightly over these two
quotations from God's Holy Word.  Read them again and again until
the truth grips you.  You cannot save yourself--you MUST be born
again.


How To Be Born Again
--------------------

  "He came unto his own, and his own received him not.  But as
many received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of
God, even to them that believe on his name:  Which were born, not
of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,
but of God."  (John 1:11-13)

1. It is not blood.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your are not a Christian just because your parents may be.  There
is one thing you do not inherit from your parents and that is
salvation.  Even though your folks may be saved, if you have not
been born again you are lost.

2. Nor of the will of the flesh.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is not by your own efforts and will power.  There is
absolutely no use to try to save yourself.  You will fail.  So
why not stop trying?  Instead of trying, trust, receive, depend
upon the One who died and rose again.

  If I'd ask some of you if you were a child of God you would
say, 'I don't know for sure, but I'm trying to be, in my poor
weak way.'  Now suppose you ask Johnny Jones if he is the son of
Mr. and Mrs. Jones and he'd answer, 'I am not certain, but I'm
trying to be, in my poor weak way.'  How silly.  He is not their
son because he tries to be, but because he was born into their
home.  If you are a child of God it is not because of your
trying, but because you have been born into His family.

3. Nor of the will of man.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is not brought about by any of man's religion creeds, systems
or ceremonies.  No man or organization can do anything to you
that will make you a child of God.  Join what you will, go
through ceremony after ceremony, memorize creeds, and try to keep
the rules and regulations of man-made systems, but it will not
save you.

  I read a man testify, 'I have been the president of the men's
Bible class in our church for the past two years, but didn't get
saved until just two months ago.'  For 22 months, the president
of the men's Bible class, a member of the church, believing in
God and the Bible, but on the way to hell because he had never
been born again.  How thankful he was that he saw his true
condition before God before it was too late.  Had he died in that
state he would have been eternally lost.

4.  But of God.
    ^^^^^^^^^^
Jesus said you must be born "of the Spirit."  It is God's work,
not yours.  It is a miracle.  Only God can perform it.  If God
has not done a work in your life you are not born again.  Your
part is to believe God's record about you, that you are lost and
in need of Christ, and receive Him as your Lord and Savior.  He
died at Calvary, satisfying the righteousness and justice of God.
He arose and is seated today in a real body of flesh and bone as
God's man at the right hand of the majesty on high and He is
offered to you as God's salvation.  When you receive HIM you will
be saved for Paul says we are "all children of God by faith in
Christ Jesus."  (Galatians 3:26)  But there is no hope if you
reject Him, only tears and night and endless woe.

  I for some 20 years thought (wrongly) that I was a Christian
because I had done so and so works:  unbeliever's baptism,
confirmation, church membership, confessing certain creeds, and
partaking in the Lord's Supper to name just a few.  However,
after going several times to a Bible believing/Bible teaching
church, the Holy Spirit convicted my heart terribly.  I thank God
for this.  I finally knew I was lost without a Savior.  I
repented of my sins to God the Father and placed all my faith in
the finished work of Jesus Christ at Calvary to forgive me of my
sins that would have taken me to hell.

  While your heart is yet tender and before it is eternally too
late, I beg you again, for your sake, your family's sake, for
Jesus' sake, do not trifle with this thing.  Bow at the feet of
the risen Lord and tell Him you receive Him now, for you can be
saved without money, without popularity, without friends, without
health, but NOT WITHOUT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.  "He that hath the
Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not
life."  (I John 5:12)

  Perhaps the following prayer might be helpful.

  ------------------------------------------------------------
    I realize the need of the New birth.  I do here and now
  sincerely receive God's risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, as
  my Lord and Savior, trusting Him to wash my sins away.  I
  will stand on His promise, "He that hath the Son hath life,"
  and when I have opportunity I will confess Him before men as
  my Lord.
  ------------------------------------------------------------


K. Paulson
N. D. S. U. student
1372 32nd Street South #20
Fargo, ND 58103

math1h3@JANE.UH.EDU (David H. Wagner) (06/10/91)

In article <Jun.6.23.16.25.1991.8683@athos.rutgers.edu>, 
NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes:

>What The New Birth Is Not
>1.  It is not religion.
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Nicodemus was a Pharisee, a very strict religionist.  He
>celebrated the Passover, paid tithes, said prayers, brought
>sacrifices, tried to keep the law.  And it was to HIM the Lord
>Jesus said, "Ye must be born again."  Law keeping, going to
>church, being religious, joining a church, being baptized,
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[deletion]...will not save you.                            
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed, that being 'born again' is not just religion.  But Jesus said

"no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of *water* and the
Spirit".  And Peter said, "this water symbolizes baptism *which now saves
you* ". (1 Peter 3:21) And Paul wrote:  "He saved us through the washing of 
rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)  

Finally Paul wrote in Colossians 2:11,12, "In him you were also circumcised, 
in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by men 
but with the circumcision *done by Christ*, having been buried with him 
*in baptism* and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who 
raised him from the dead."

So I conclude:

1.  Baptism is not just an empty sign, but an act of God.
2.  God saves us through Baptism by the power of his Word.
3.  Baptism works renewal/regeneration/rebirth in us.
4.  This renewal/regeneration/rebirth is precisely what Christ meant
    by 'being born again.'

>What The New Birth Is
>[deletions]
>  Someone has said that the new birth is not something that needs
>to be explained, but to be experienced.  If you have not had the
>experience, the explanation would do you no good, and if you have
>had the experience, you don't need the explanation.

You seem to be saying that the Holy Scriptures are NOT able to make
us wise for salvation, that our knowledge of God comes partly from
'experience', and not 'Sola Scriptura'.  Is that really what you want
to say?

>2.  It is the work of God by which a poor, lost, guilty,
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>hell-deserving sinner who receives the Lord Jesus receives a new
>nature, becomes a child of God and begins a new life.  It is a
>second birth, a spiritual birth.

Agreed.  But does not Paul say in Romans 7 that the sinful nature remains
with us, and that our new self is at war with the sinful nature?

>  When you are born again you begin living a new life.  That is
>what happened when you were born the first time, you began living
>a life you had never lived before.  You made a profession of
>salvation, but was there any difference in your life after that?
>Don't rest in a shallow profession.

Don't rather, trust in your own works, or anything that you DO.  Put your
trust in Jesus Christ, your Savior.
                     
>  Be sure you are born again.  There may be
>a more spectacular change in the life of one who is a drunken,
>railing blasphemer, but even in you who have not been down deep
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>in sin, there is bound to be a change when you are born again.
 ^^^^^^
Really this is offensive.  Aren't we all deep down in sin?

>There will be a new attitude towards the Lord Jesus Christ, His
>Word, His people, and a new attitude towards prayer.

Should a person condemn his own faith because he does not experience this?
I think you are confusing justification with sanctification.  We are declared
righteous, not because of anything we do, but because the Son of God became
one of us, lived a perfect life, yet died on the cross for our sins.  His
resurrection showed us God's verdict of 'not guilty' on the entire human
race.  We accept that verdict through faith, and even that is a gift of 
God.  But I think you are making faith/conversion/rebirth a work of the 
sinner--whether you realize it or not.

The new self is born in the sinner at conversion/baptism.  Yet even in
adults, it starts as an infant.  So Peter wrote:  "Like newborn babies,
crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
now that you have tasted that the Lord is good."  (1 Peter 2:2).  Yet we
ought to grow up in our faith:  

"We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you
are slow to learn.  In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers,
you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all
over again.  You need milk, not solid food!  Anyone who lives on milk,
being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about 
righteousness.  But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have
trained themselves to distinguish good from evil."

--Hebrews 5:11-14

If someone confesses faith in Jesus Christ, are we to question whether
they 'feel' born again?  We cannot judge people's hearts, only God can
do that.  (cf. the parable of weeds in the wheat).  Shouldn't we rather
simply encourage them to continue in that faith, and to feed their faith
with the Word of God and the Lord's Supper?

David H. Wagner
a confessional Lutheran.	"Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
				and lean not on your own understanding"
				--Proverbs 3:5

My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by
The University of Houston.

horsch@cs.ubc.ca (Michael Horsch) (06/10/91)

In article <Jun.6.23.16.25.1991.8683@athos.rutgers.edu> NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes:
:[...]
:Nicodemus was a Pharisee, a very strict religionist.  He
:celebrated the Passover, paid tithes, said prayers, brought
:sacrifices, tried to keep the law.  And it was to HIM the Lord
:Jesus said, "Ye must be born again."  

You are playing fast and loose with context here.  What you haven't
chosen to tell us is that Nicodemus has already made a confession of
sorts about Jesus: "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher sent by God."
This confession suggests to me that Jesus was not telling Nicodemus
that he lacked an essential ingredient for salvation, but explaining
to him what that ingredient is.  In other words, if Nicodemus had not
already been reborn, he would not have recognized Jesus.  Recall
Peter's confession, and Jesus' reaction to it.

[...]
:1. It is a mystery you can't explain, but a reality no
:man can explain away.

This is no definition.  You seem to be arguing for a special kind of 
"feeling" that only the "feeler" can understand, and this is not 
helpful either.  By leaving 'rebirth' ill-defined, or defined only in
terms of a personalized emotional response to a conversion experience, 
you seem to make illegitimate the faith of anyone who can't identify 
that special kind of feeling.  Thus you steal faith in God's grace,
replacing it with faith in a feeling.  

:[...]
:Why You Must Be Born Again
:
:1.  Because the Lord Jesus Christ said so.
:
:That ought to settle it.  Why argue about it when He Who is the
:Son of God says you must be born again?  He ought to know.

The phrase "must be" is interesting in modern English, having two 
nearly opposing readings.  The first is "need to be" as in "I 
must be leaving."  The second is "really are" as in "You must be 
dreaming."

Now read the last few lines of the basenote again, starting from "Why
You Must Be Born Again".

This English ambiguity is incidental, but still interesting.  Perhaps 
an indicator for being "reborn" is the following:  Do you hear the 
so-called saviour say: "You have to be born again," or do you hear 
Jesus the son of God say: "You really are born again"?

Personally, I prefer it to trying to identify an ill-defined feeling.

:K. Paulson
:N. D. S. U. student
:1372 32nd Street South #20
:Fargo, ND 58103

Mike  (goo)
--
Michael C. Horsch		Department of Computer Science 
horsch@cs.ubc.ca		University of British Columbia

NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu (06/14/91)

This is a response to Michael Horsch's post over my original
post on 'The New Birth.'  Mainly, I want to clearify briefly.

------------------------------------------------------------
Michael mentioned a "confession of sorts" by Nicodemus.

Nicodemus originally recognized Jesus as "a teacher come from God"
in John 3:2.

Logically, Nicodemus (a man of the Pharisees...a ruler of the Jews) must have
either seen some of the teachings of Jesus Christ in person, or come
by it by word of mouth, or etc.  Anyways, my point is Nicodemus only
acknowledged Jesus as a teacher come from God.  He HAD NOT acknowledged
Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior like a born again Christian
has.  Nicodemus had never truly seen himself as lost and deserving of hell.
I believe Nicodemus was being honest with himself in that he was missing
something (namely the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal Savior).
I believe Nicodemus was searching because of the preaching of Jesus Christ
which he had heard either directly or indirectly.  Remember God's word
will not return void.  I'm sure someone out there will probably read this
and wonder what K. Paulson is talking about in the "The New Birth" post.

My other point is that salvation is NOT a tingly feeling.
Being born again is not the after effect of conversion.  Conversion
is being born again.  Trusting in a feeling (rather than
repenting to God the Father and placing all your faith in the
Lord Jesus Christ to save you) IS NOT  Bible salvation.
I'm not suggesting what Michael was trying to say in this last paragraph.
I'm just clarifying, here.


K. Paulson
N. D. S. U. student
1372 32nd Street South West #20
Fargo, ND 58013

horsch@cs.ubc.ca (Michael Horsch) (06/15/91)

In article <Jun.13.23.23.53.1991.15693@athos.rutgers.edu> NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes:
[...]
:Michael mentioned a "confession of sorts" by Nicodemus.
:
:Nicodemus originally recognized Jesus as "a teacher come from God"
:in John 3:2.
:
:Logically, Nicodemus (a man of the Pharisees...a ruler of the Jews) must have
:either seen some of the teachings of Jesus Christ in person, or come
:by it by word of mouth, or etc.  Anyways, my point is Nicodemus only
:acknowledged Jesus as a teacher come from God.  He HAD NOT acknowledged
:Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior like a born again Christian
:has.  

Before Jesus spoke to Nicodemus there was no terminology for Nicidemus 
to use other than "a teacher from God."  The phrase "born again" was 
introduced in Jesus' reply to Nicodemus, and the idea of Jesus as 
Saviour is presented after the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

:Nicodemus had never truly seen himself as lost and deserving of hell.

This is not so obvious.  John doesn't tell us much about what
Nicodemus believed.  The phrase "lost and deserving of hell" is not
found in the conversation either.  So, he may have believed he
was righteous in his role as a Pharisee, but maybe he knew that he
could not but fail to keep the law perfectly, even though he would
try.  John doesn't say anything about this, and we can only speculate.

[...]
:My other point is that salvation is NOT a tingly feeling.
:Being born again is not the after effect of conversion.  Conversion
:is being born again.  Trusting in a feeling (rather than
:repenting to God the Father and placing all your faith in the
:Lord Jesus Christ to save you) IS NOT  Bible salvation.
:I'm not suggesting what Michael was trying to say in this last paragraph.
:I'm just clarifying, here.

We agree (I think -- your original article seemed to indicate
otherwise).  But you cannot then ask a Christian "Are you really sure
you're saved?" which is what your original article also was asking.  

:K. Paulson
:N. D. S. U. student
:1372 32nd Street South West #20
:Fargo, ND 58013

Mike  (goo)

--
Michael C. Horsch		Department of Computer Science 
horsch@cs.ubc.ca		University of British Columbia

llo@nuchat.sccsi.com (Larry Overacker) (06/22/91)

In article <Jun.13.23.23.53.1991.15693@athos.rutgers.edu> NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes:
>Anyways, my point is Nicodemus only
>acknowledged Jesus as a teacher come from God.  He HAD NOT acknowledged
>Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior like a born again Christian
>has.  Nicodemus had never truly seen himself as lost and deserving of hell.
>I believe Nicodemus was being honest with himself in that he was missing

This concept of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is very recent 
in Church history and is NOT found in the Bible.  Yes, the Bible speaks
of Jesus as our Lord and Savior, but the commonly accepted born again 
experience commonly promoted in Protestant churches is an not based upon
direct biblical evidence.  

>My other point is that salvation is NOT a tingly feeling.
>Being born again is not the after effect of conversion.  Conversion
>is being born again.  Trusting in a feeling (rather than

This is also not strictly supported by John's text.
Indeed, you must be born again.  No Orthodox or Catholic or Protestant
Christian would differ on that point; however, Jesus then relates to us just
what it means to be born again.  It is to be born of water and of the Spirit.
In the Orthodox view, this means the inner transformation that God effects 
in us through the sacraments of Baptism and Chrismation (laying on of hands). 
Being born again has been understood by most Christians over the 
past 2000 years to mean exactly this.  Other meanings may apply, but
alternate readings and interpretations of Scripture should not be described
as normative.  The practice of millions of Christians over the millenia that
have sought to follow Christ with all their being are not defective simply
because they did not have a 20th century evangelical protestant born again
conversion experience.

>repenting to God the Father and placing all your faith in the
>Lord Jesus Christ to save you) IS NOT  Bible salvation.
>I'm not suggesting what Michael was trying to say in this last paragraph.
>I'm just clarifying, here.


-- 
============================================================================
    Larry Overacker
           Art is not a mirror held up to reality,
           but a hammer with which to shape it.           bertolt brecht