[soc.religion.christian] KNEELING PRAYER

walsh@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (08/30/90)

In article <Aug.25.03.52.37.1990.13221@porthos.rutgers.edu>, gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes:
> In article <Aug.12.02.33.13.1990.15894@athos.rutgers.edu> barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) writes:
>>
>>This idea that christians are called to be warrior defenders of the faith
>>is demonicand can only lead to the proverbial hell. How many Jews hate
> 
> I think this may be merely a problem of word choice.  We are warriors.
> Notice that Paul tells us to put on the whole armor of God.  Who puts on
> armor but warriors, soldiers.  But also notice the position of
> battle--on our knees in prayer.  

Thanks for a good post, but as a tangent, does this passage really
mention "on our knees?" Can someone with a concordance handy please
post where else in the NT prayer is mentioned on our knees besides the
parable of the pharasee and publican? This is insignificant, but i 
come from a tradition where prayer was always said standing up. I never
looked up bible passages either way. 
 
> 
> Gene

      ando.

hammer@sp29.csrd.uiuc.edu (David Hammerslag) (09/02/90)

In article <Aug.30.00.28.39.1990.22692@athos.rutgers.edu>,
walsh@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>Thanks for a good post, but as a tangent, does this passage really
>mention "on our knees?" Can someone with a concordance handy please
>post where else in the NT prayer is mentioned on our knees besides the
>parable of the pharasee and publican? This is insignificant, but i 
>come from a tradition where prayer was always said standing up. I never
>looked up bible passages either way. 

Just off the top of my head...

In Luke's Gospel, when Jesus awaited his arrest, he "knelt down and prayed."
(Luke 22:39-44)



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hammerslag            | Keep an open mind, but not so open that people 
hammer@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu | throw garbage in. 
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gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) (09/02/90)

In article <Aug.30.00.28.39.1990.22692@athos.rutgers.edu> walsh@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>In article <Aug.25.03.52.37.1990.13221@porthos.rutgers.edu>, gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes:
>> In article <Aug.12.02.33.13.1990.15894@athos.rutgers.edu> barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) writes:
>>>
>>>This idea that christians are called to be warrior defenders of the faith
>>>is demonicand can only lead to the proverbial hell. How many Jews hate
>> 
>> I think this may be merely a problem of word choice.  We are warriors.
>> Notice that Paul tells us to put on the whole armor of God.  Who puts on
>> armor but warriors, soldiers.  But also notice the position of
>> battle--on our knees in prayer.  
>
>Thanks for a good post, but as a tangent, does this passage really
>mention "on our knees?" Can someone with a concordance handy please
>post where else in the NT prayer is mentioned on our knees besides the
>parable of the pharasee and publican? This is insignificant, but i 
>come from a tradition where prayer was always said standing up. I never
>looked up bible passages either way. 

Ando:

Just looked up the passage in Ephesians.  The passage does not mention
anything about being on your knees.  I humbly apologize for putting
words in the Apostles mouth, as it were.

It may be that when I think of praying I see the person coming before
the throne of God.  The bending of the knee would be an appropriate
action before the Majesty on High.  I personally have a hard time
thinking of supplication and prayer as taking place in any other
positions except kneeling or full out prostrate before the Lord.
However, since there is not a real command to kneel in prayer, then I
don't suppose that it makes a big difference.

The point is that our tactic in battle is not what one would expect,
initially.  After all, with all that armor on and sword in hand, one
would think of more offensive actions being taken.  Yet, the Apostle
tells us that our battle tactic is to pray.  While this doesn't sound
like much of an offensive tactic to take, when you stop and consider
what Jesus said about prayer in John, it is like the spiritual
equivalent of a nuclear weapon.  Especially so when saints come together
in Christ to pray in agreement on things.  Talk about taking the high
ground!!!

Again, I apologize for adding what wasn't there in the actual text.

For His glory,

Gene

pkuhio@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Morton Cotlar) (09/04/90)

In article <Sep.1.23.05.07.1990.6544@athos.rutgers.edu> hammer@sp29.csrd.uiuc.edu (David Hammerslag) writes:
>In article <Aug.30.00.28.39.1990.22692@athos.rutgers.edu>,
>walsh@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>>Thanks for a good post, but as a tangent, does this passage really
>>mention "on our knees?" Can someone with a concordance handy please
>>post where else in the NT prayer is mentioned on our knees besides the
>>parable of the pharasee and publican? This is insignificant, but i 
>>come from a tradition where prayer was always said standing up. I never
>>looked up bible passages either way. 
>
>Just off the top of my head...
>
>In Luke's Gospel, when Jesus awaited his arrest, he "knelt down and prayed."
>(Luke 22:39-44)
>

   **************************************************
  
   I found following verses:


GEN 24:11  And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water.
GEN 30:3  And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
GEN 41:43  And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.
GEN 48:12  And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.
GEN 50:23  And Joseph saw Ephraim's children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were brought up upon Joseph's knees.
DEU 28:35  The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.
JDG 7:5  So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
JDG 7:6  And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.
JDG 16:19  And she made him sleep upon her knees; and she called for a man, and she caused him to shave off the seven locks of his head; and she began to afflict him, and his strength went from him.
KI1 8:54  And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the LORD, he arose from before the altar of the LORD, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven.
KI1 18:42  So Ahab went up to eat and to drink. And Elijah went up to the top of Carmel; and he cast himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees,
KI1 19:18  Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KI2 1:13  And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.
KI2 4:20  And when he had taken him, and brought him to his mother, he sat on her knees till noon, and then died.
CH2 6:13  For Solomon had made a brasen scaffold of five cubits long, and five cubits broad, and three cubits high, and had set it in the midst of the court: and upon it he stood, and kneeled down upon his knees before all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven.
EZR 9:5  And at the evening sacrifice I arose up from my heaviness; and having rent my garment and my mantle, I fell upon my knees, and spread out my hands unto the LORD my God,
JOB 3:12  Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
JOB 4:4  Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
PSA 95:6  O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
PSA 109:24  My knees are weak through fasting; and my flesh faileth of fatness.
ISA 35:3  Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
ISA 45:23  I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
ISA 66:12  For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
EZE 7:17  All hands shall be feeble, and all knees shall be weak as water.
EZE 21:7  And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.
EZE 47:4  Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
DAN 5:6  Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed, and his knees smote one against another.
DAN 6:10  Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.
DAN 10:10  And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
NAH 2:10  She is empty, and void, and waste: and the heart melteth, and the knees smite together, and much pain is in all loins, and the faces of them all gather blackness.
MAT 17:14  And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
MAT 27:29  And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
MAR 1:40  And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
MAR 10:17  And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
MAR 15:19  And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
LUK 5:8  When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
LUK 22:41  And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
ACT 7:60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
ACT 9:40  But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
ACT 20:36  And when he had thus spoken, he kneeled down, and prayed with them all.
ACT 21:5  And when we had accomplished those days, we departed and went our way; and they all brought us on our way, with wives and children, till we were out of the city: and we kneeled down on the shore, and prayed.
ROM 11:4  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
ROM 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
EPH 3:14  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
PHI 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
HEB 12:12  Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (06/27/91)

Hello brothers and sisters in Messiah Jesus,

I opened my latest DISCIPLESHIP JOURNAL magazine and saw an article on
prayer.

  The topic was KNEELING IN PRAYER. And the direction was whether
we, while in prayer, could get closer to G-d by Kneeling or being in the 
prostrate position. Many of the Old Covenant and New Covenant saints
are given as an example, as well as Jesus. Yet, I hesitate to state as
a matter of fact that "G-d requires a certain position, like a T.V.
antenna, to receive our prayers." I don't believe I need to say a prayer
from a prayer book, or wear -special- articles of clothing to have G-d
hear me. Yet, there may be something more rewarding about kneeling in prayer.
Scripture does say that if we humble ourselves before G-d, He will 
lift us up [James 4:10.].

Last year I went to a prayer group that housed "core" prayer warriers of
about seven congregations. Most of these men and women would kneel in prayer.
Others streched out prostrate. 
Even I have found myself kneeling when I was most desperate to gain the 
Ear of G-d. 

So...I propose a test. For all those who would like to participate in a
little experiment, lets take the month of July and replace our regular
prayer patterns (sitting in chair, standing, lotus position, shower...)
with either kneeling or laying prostrate. After the set time (or any time
before or after it) send me the results. Did you feel closer to the Lord?
Were your prayers answered? Did the Spirit lead you more clearly? Etc...
Keep a prayer log, and record your results. Note any special differences.
If I get enough results, I'll post them. ** EXTRA: you are permitted to
employ the use of a pillow or cushion for your knees. **

If you would like to comment on this topic, or participate in the experiment
send me an e_mail or just respond on the NET. My net_update time is about
7 work days.


____________
Bruce Benning __________ benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com

          -------------Religion may inform and reform-------------
          ----------but only Messiah Jesus can Transform----------

  Come and listen, all you who fear God; let me tell you what he has
  done for me. I cried out to him with my mouth; his praise was on my
  tongue. If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have
  listened and heard my prayer. Praise be to God, who  has not rejected
  my prayer or withheld his love from me.
                                          [Psalm 66:16-20]

mughal@juliet.caltech.edu (Mughal, Asim) (07/01/91)

In article <Jun.27.02.57.32.1991.18956@athos.rutgers.edu>, benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes...
>Hello brothers and sisters in Messiah Jesus,

	so, ok, I'm not one of the 'brothers' :)

> 
>I opened my latest DISCIPLESHIP JOURNAL magazine and saw an article on
>prayer.
> 
>  The topic was KNEELING IN PRAYER. And the direction was whether
>we, while in prayer, could get closer to G-d by Kneeling or being in the 


	I would think the purpose/idea behind is to


		1. make oneself appear humble
		2. show respect


>Bruce Benning __________ benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
> 

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