steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton) (09/13/84)
> Lately it seems as though the Reagan administration have changed their > (official) manner of speech and the forthcoming talks between mr Reagan and > mr Gromyko cannot be anything but welcomed. I agree that the talks must be welcomed. Funny that the Reagan administration's manner has changed like this, just when elections are coming up. Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax
orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (09/21/84)
> > Lately it seems as though the Reagan administration have changed their > > (official) manner of speech and the forthcoming talks between mr Reagan and > > mr Gromyko cannot be anything but welcomed. > > I agree that the talks must be welcomed. Funny that the Reagan > administration's manner has changed like this, just when elections are > coming up. > > Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax However, besides serving Reagan's political purposes in the upcoming election, the talks are not epic-breaking--the surprise is not that Reagan is finally meeting the Soviet Foreign Minister but that he has not done so until just before the election. It has been a regular practice of past Presidents to meet with the Soviet Foreign Minister before the UN sessions. Reagan has also made absolutely no offers to reciprocate the Soviets moratorium on space-weapons testing, or to make any new offers of arms control. Nor has he suggested sending any of the 5 arms control treaties already negotiated to the Senate for ratification. Nor has he brought any charges that the Soviets are violating past agreements to the Standing Consultative Committee--instead his administration is about to issue another report accusing the Soviets of violating arms agreements without doing anything about such violations, if they have, in fact, occurred. I think we can tell therefore the basic nature of Reagan's approach to arms control, as usual-none. Tim Sevener Bell Labs, Whippany whuxl!orb
medin@ucbvax.ARPA (Milo Medin) (09/25/84)
Violations of treaties will be made public 2 days after gromyko leaves NY. There are some violations that proof will not be offered for, as giving the proof would reveal the extent of US intelligence capabilities. Those people who need to know have security clearances, and do know... As for Reagan not cooperating on the Soviet proposal for an ASAT moritorium, thank goodness!! Its about time somebody in the White House realized that all arms control agreements aren't good. The Soviets already have an operational and well tested and deployed system online TODAY. No wonder they want a freeze. As for Reagan being opposed to all arms control, I dont believe that, though I would welcome such a position for reasons that I have mentioned before on the net... Milo
robertsb@ttidcb.UUCP (Robin Roberts) (09/25/84)
It is not so "funny" that the Reagan administration is willing to talk to the Soviets because if you dump the Mondale propaganda you'll remember that it has been the Soviets who have bailed out of negotiations and/or placed preconditions. It seems the Soviets don't like it when we think for ourselves. Of course the fact that Reagan hasn't yet had a healthy counterpart is equally ignored in the Mondale crap. Walter Mondale would be eaten alive by the lowest ranking Soviet negotiator.
mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (10/01/84)
> [robertsb@ttidcb.UUCP (Robin Roberts)] > ... > Of course the fact that Reagan hasn't yet had a healthy counterpart is equally > ignored in the Mondale crap. > .... Why is this important? Do you think Reagan wants to try pugilism as a negotiating technique?
plunkett@rlgvax.UUCP (S. Plunkett) (10/02/84)
> > [robertsb@ttidcb.UUCP (Robin Roberts)] > > ... > > Of course the fact that Reagan hasn't yet had a healthy counterpart is equally > > ignored in the Mondale crap. > > .... > > Why is this important? Do you think Reagan wants to try pugilism as a > negotiating technique? So who's he going to talk to? The Kremlin Janitorial Staff? The only constant throughout has been good old A. Gromyko, but then even he has been out of favor since KAL 007. How soon we forget. Scott Plunkett, ..{ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!rlgvax!plunkett P.S.: A swift Polish-upper-cut to the Foreign Minister's aged jaw would speak volumes. Not a bad idea.
orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (10/02/84)
> It is not so "funny" that the Reagan administration is willing to talk to > the Soviets because if you dump the Mondale propaganda you'll remember that > it has been the Soviets who have bailed out of negotiations and/or placed > preconditions. It seems the Soviets don't like it when we think for ourselves. Let us consider what Reagan has done to encourage arms control: 1)Never supported a single arms treaty negotiated by any of his predecessors 2)Announced that he will break SALT II in 1985 3)initiated a program for wars in space (Star Wars) that will openly violate one of the major treaties still in force, namely the ABM treaty 4)made a proposal at the START talks which would lead to the Soviets reducing their arms by twice the amount ours would be reduced. Moreover, rather than "reducing" the level of nuclear arms, his proposal would reduce Soviet forces while allowing the US to go full speed ahead with cruise missile technology and lead to an increase of 1500 warheads in a few years. His proposal also did NOT include the MX missile, or B1 bombers--ostensibly "bargaining chips" but never offered by Reagan in any bargain to date 5)allowed 5 treaties to languish without approval--despite the requests of the Republican controlled Senate to submit 2 of these treaties for ratification. 6)again and again publicly accused the Soviets of "lying and cheating" on past arms agreements- yet never taken a single charge before the Standing Consultative Committee used by past Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter to resolve and STOP past suspected Soviet treaty violations. After all these efforts we now find ourselves facing 2500 more Soviet nuclear warheads than when Reagan came to office. I am not about to excuse Soviet intransigence anymore than I will excuse Reagan intransigence. But all past Presidents have been able to accomplish some sort of arms control--Reagan is the only President in the past 20 years who has not. Reagan has failed to acknowledge Soviet initiatives for arms control that the Soviets have taken. For over a year they had a unilateral moratorium on the deployment of SS-20's in Europe--but Reagan's failure to offer any reasonable negotiating position before cruise missile deployment led to renewed SS-20 deployments. The Soviets have also had a unilateral moratorium on the testing and deployment of space weapons. Again, Reagan has never responded to this initiative. Reagan's plans to break currently observed treaties is the worst of all- why should anyone trust us? Tim Sevener whuxl!orb
lkk@mit-eddie.UUCP (Larry Kolodney) (10/03/84)
From Scott Plunkett:
"The only constant throughout has been good old A. Gromyko, but then even he
has been out of favor since KAL 007. How soon we forget."
Please cite references to indicate that Gromyko is out of favor. From all
indications he and Ustinov (the defense minister) ARE the leadership, with
the ailing Chernenko a dottering front man. (Sounds alot like the relationship
between Meese et al and Reagan).
--
larry kolodney (The Devil's Advocate)
UUCP: ...{ihnp4, decvax!genrad}!mit-eddie!lkk
ARPA: lkk@mit-mclkk@mit-eddie.UUCP (10/03/84)
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Date: Wed, 3-Oct-84 13:16:25 EDT
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>From Scott Plunkett:
"The only constant throughout has been good old A. Gromyko, but then even he
has been out of favor since KAL 007. How soon we forget."
Please cite references to indicate that Gromyko is out of favor. From all
indications he and Ustinov (the defense minister) ARE the leadership, with
the ailing Chernenko a dottering front man. (Sounds alot like the relationship
between Meese et al and Reagan).
--
larry kolodney (The Devil's Advocate)
UUCP: ...{ihnp4, decvax!genrad}!mit-eddie!lkk
ARPA: lkk@mit-mcplunkett@rlgvax.UUCP (S. Plunkett) (10/05/84)
T. Sevener (whuxl!orb) writes of the "intransigence" of Mr. Reagan,
and although claims not to excuse unspecified Soviet intransigence
nevertheless tells us:
- The Soviets stopped deploying SS-20s in Europe for "over a year";
[what page of Isvestia did you read that on?]
- The Soviets were apparently obliged to continue deployment when
Mr. Reagan failed to "offer any reasonable negotiating position"
prior to U.S. Cruise Missile deployment;
[probably the Style Section]
- The Soviets have ceased testing and deploying "space weapons",
with an implication that they are humbly awaiting Mr. Reagan's
response to this "initiative";
[waiting for the disinformation to seep into the wood work]
- "Reagan's plans to break currently observed treaties is the worst of all-";
[meaning they are reading the agreements as close to the bone as
the Soviets always do]
- "Reagan has failed to acknowledge Soviet initiatives for arms control";
[walking out of a negotiating conference is an "initiative"?]
As for the accurate statements made, viz:
- "Announcing" the break with (unratified) SALT 2;
- Initiating a Strategic Defense (so-called "Star Wars");
- Allowing "5 treaties" (only that many?) to "languish";
- Publicly "accusing" the Soviets of lying and cheating...
These eminently sensible policy decisions are--it is hard to believe--
apparently considered abhorent, despicable, and probably worse.
Now, such favortism for the Soviets is probably much appreciated by
them. However, such communist advocacy does not advance the debate
in the U.S. concerning the most effective means of meeting the
Soviet threat.
Scott Plunkett,
..{ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!rlgvax!plunkettorb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) (10/10/84)
> > Why is this important? Do you think Reagan wants to try pugilism as a > negotiating technique? Ronald Reagan after getting whipped in the first debate: "I challenge Walter Mondale to an arm-wrestling contest"
rs55611@ihuxk.UUCP (Robert E. Schleicher) (10/11/84)
Reagan's challenge to "armwrestle" was reported out-of-context by many TV broadcasts. As I understand it, Regan offerred to armwrestle TIP O'NEILL, not Mondale, after being informed of O'Neil's comments on Reagan's age. The TV clip just shows Reagan saying "I'll armwrestle HIM". (A Reagan/O'Neil armwrestle? Tip's only two years younger, and in worse shape, I'd think!) Bob Schleicher ihuxk!rs55611