tb@sri-unix (12/07/82)
A couple of months ago I requested info re sports cars. A lot of useful
responses were received. The weather here really isn't sports car stuff,
snow screws everything up... so I went for fron wheel drive. The only
cars of a sporty type I found were: Audi Coupe, VW GTI, VW Scirocco and
Saab 900. The Audi was overpriced and has a silly dashboard. The GTI
was nice, but has a crummy stick shift, and looks like a shoe box.
Scirocco, same stick problems, but looks sharp. Saab 900.. overpriced.
I now have a Scirocco... As I suspected the stick was ok once one gets
used to it. Its peppy, came with A/C, rear w/w and defogger, a std radio
that knocks spots of the Celica radio (really!), add the $900 rebate from
VW it makes it an afforbable car. The more I drive it the more I like it.
Too bad about the RX7, still when I move to CA.....
Here are the responses.. its rather long but there are some good comments.
Terry Bradley houti!tb
Let's be serious! The TR8 is a serious mistake, overpowered and under-
designed. Of the cars you mention, the only serious sportscars are the
RX7, the GTI and the Scriacco (Sp.). The GTI is getting rave reviews from
the motoring press (C/D, R&T) while keeping a half-way down to earth
price (8-9 K). The others are up in the 11-15K range, where you might as
also consider the 280ZX, the VOLVO Turbo, Saab Turbo, Audi 5000, etc.
Of your original list, only the GTI would legitamitley be a 4 seater.
Mickey Levine
Go for the front-wheel drive!
Michael Wagner, UTCS
My personal favorite is the Saab 900 Turbo. For about the same money as
a 280ZX, you get a *fast* car with front wheel drive, good ground clearance
(both contributing to excellent snow and rain handling), and a whole lotta
room and comfort. Virtually everything is standard (an $800 stereo system,
for example). It's also a very safe car, with reinforcing door beams and
an integral roll cage. Finally, they are built to last. Most Saabs last
200,000+ miles with good care.
DJ Molny
I own a 81 280zx and have nothing but praise for the reliability and
performance of the car. I have never gotten under 22 mpg and have upon
occasion gotten 30 mpg. I enjoy the car for what is - a sports car -
meaning I drive it the way I enjoy driving(don't putt around). I have
put $0 into the car in maintainence except for routine maintainence,
but I do take very good care of it. Both the 15k and 30k checkups cost
less than $30 and the 7.5k was free. I can't promise that for you since
I'm friends with the local Datsun service manager. Presently I nave about
38 kmiles on the car. I also have a friend with a new RX7 and I have a
lot of respect for that car also. If you don't have hangups about buying
Japaneese now is a good time to buy because the Yen have fallen a good
deal lately against the dollar. My car is a two seater( an occasional
disadvantage but only if all your friends have two-seaters also) and I
really haven't missed having a 4 seater all that much. Anyway I won't try
to tell you what to buy but would like to give the ZX a vote a confidence.
D.Windham
I own a 1982 Mazda RX-7, and have about 7500 miles on it to date. I am still
in love with the car, as it offers great handling, good power, decent ride,
but lousy gas mileage. As far as cold weather, it seems to be slightly
cold-natured at first start-up, but warms ups pretty quickly. As for gas mileage
I average around 24 mpg on the road (65-70 mph), and probably 16-19 mpg
in town. You might get better mileage though, as I tend to drive more for the
pleasure of driving than for the gas mileage. It is one of the few cars
that I have driven that is really "fun-to-drive". I test-drove several cars,
among them the 280-ZX,Supra,Trans Spam, and even a Corvette, before I bought
the Mazda. I was very impressed with the Z and the Supra, but decided that
the RX-7 was the probably the best sportscar value I could find, and was
considerably cheaper than either the Z or the Supra. I got a GS model
with sunroof,AC,Cast Wheels, and had Cruise and Cassette added, and still
have less than $12K in the car. As far as putting four people in it, forget
it. Two people and a couple of suitcases is max. capacity(although it does
have two compartments behind either seat that are large enough to hold a
case of beer each, completely out of sight). I am not familiar with the
TR8, but in my past experiences with Triumphs,(2 GT-6's, a Spitfire, and a
TR7) they have been high maintenace cars, so if you go that route, be
prepared to work on it often. Happy Trails!
Rick Appleby
I've just gotten finished reading the reviews of the VW Rabbit GTI.
>From the sounds of it, it is one heck of a little sports car. (0-60 mph in
9.7 seconds, two seconds faster than a Trans-am 5.0 liter!) List price is
about $7,995, but with options it typically runs around $8,300 - $8,500.
There are reviews in the November issues of Motor Trend and Car &
Driver.
Bruce Peters
My preference would be Saab Turbo, but then I'm biased.
4Cyl OHC, FWD, 4-5 people in luxury.
Absolutely unflappable in cold/snow (has been known to push less
fortunate cars up hills).
I had a Fiat 124 Spyder which I loved dearly for the way in
which it handled and the room you get compared to most other small
sports cars. I had plenty of leg room and head room ( I'm only 6'2"
but have long legs ) in this car while in others, like the TR-7, I
was very cramped.
I liked the performance of the Spyder, and with the turbo, it
should be even better ( mine was a '77 with the 1756cc engine ).
The gear box is a dream! one of the best I ever tried, although
it could use a different set of ratios since the difference between
4th and 5th was not too great.
The only bad thing was service/getting parts. I did most of the
work myself, and didn't find it too hard, although the engine compartment
is REALLY tight. Getting parts was a real pain though. I had to have
the differential replaced ( under waranty ) and it took them about
2 months to get the part. I was probably just the dealer, who later
went out of business at that location, since I have some friends who
have other models of the same car with much less problem getting
parts.
The car was nice in cold weather and would warm up in about a
couple of minutes, in fact, it would get too warm much of the time and
I would have to open the window/take down the top. You might not
want a convertable, but I LOVE the open roofs and if you are really
concerned about the top, you can get a fiberglass top for around
$300.
The price is not bad at all compared to the other cars you mentioned,
and looks better than most, especially since you can get really big discounts
from the dealers.
I looked at the TR-7 ( old version of the 8 ) and didn't get it
because they had trouble with leaking roofs ( I don't know why, it
didn't come off, it was a hard top ) and not enough leg room.
If you want to wait, you might look into the the new P-car comming
out from Pontiac, a nice little 2 seater or the K-car from Chrysler,
both of which should be out sometime soon ( I hope! )
Martin S. Doehring, '83
I am the proud owner of a two year old TR7 convertible. I bought a TR7
instead of a TR8 because I decided that I prefered the efficiency of the TR7
(20 mpg city vs. 14 or was that 12?) over the extra horsepower of the TR8. I
had found from owning a Camaro Z28 that I hardly ever used even a fraction
the horsepower available and that the TR7's 4 cyl. was peppy enough for most
purposes especially with the top down.
I have good experience with reliability, however parts are very expensive
(though that may just be an industry wide result of inflation). I can't say
what problems you might have with availabilty of parts in your part of the
country. Here in northern California, I have not experienced any problems
yet. As you may know, both the TR7/8 have been discontinued models and you
may have problems finding one. If you are looking for a TR7, you should
definitely buy a 1979 or later model as the earlier models had severe
reliability problems. Luckily, they managed to work most of the bugs out by
the later versions.
I really have no idea about cold weather performance (it rarely gets below
freezing here). However in my opinion, it is a waste to buy a
non-convertible TR7/8 and it is a waste to buy a covertible (except as a
second car for summer driving) if you are in a part of the country where
doesn't make sense to put the top down for a majority of the year (I'm
originally from Massachusetts where that is definitely true).
One major design flaw of the TR7/8 is that the front end is very low and it
is a front engine car and the suspension is relatively soft for a sports car
so that when you stop hard, the nose dives a little which is enough to put
you under the rear bumpers of cars with high rear bumpers. Needless to say
this does a job on the nose and you may notice a disproportionate number of
TR's around with dents on their nose. But if you drive carefully this
shouldn't be a problem. Also, some of the other sports cars that you are
considering may have the same problem.
Finally, the TR7/8 is definitely a two person car and you really can't carry
more than that for even medium hauls. On the bright side, the TR7/8 is
extremely roomy (more room than the RX7, 280ZX, or corvette) and is likely
to become a colletors item someday. It is quite responsive though it is not
on the very edge in terms of cornering, acceleration or top speed (but how
often do you need that extra .05 g's or extra second in the quarter mile or
go over 100 mph?). In summary, the TR7/8 is extremely fun to drive and on a
warm sunny day with the top down, there is nothing else that even comes close.
David Chin
First get a subscription to Car & Driver. They are the best in comparative
automobiles.
Second, the definition of "SPORTS CAR" is subject to religous debate.
(I am of the "british Car" school (There are no German or Amrican Sports cars).
Basicaly, Sports Cars are intended to be fun to drive and pull maximum G's in
corners. Front wheel drive limits maximum cornering so is out for the ulitmate.
What do you really want? Fun? Cornering? Status? Speed? Good snow handling?
We can therefore classify cars:
Econobox: Cheap to run.
Luxocruiser: i.e. Buick/Cadillac.
SportsCar: Hard driving on twisty roads. Almost uniquely British.
The manufacturer usualy doesn't care about heaters and A/C units.
Discocruiser:Sexy status car with almost sportscar handling.
Musclecars: These are dead.
The Celica is aimed at the Buick market (Luxo Cruiser). So it's not what you
were thinking of.
The T/A is not a sports car, *see* , but handles well, seats TWO + two small
cats. It has a GOOD heater and will be OK in snow IF AND ONLY IF you get
the optional "LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL" (It may be call "POSI-DRIVE" or some
other name. It Is moderately fast and easy to get fixed. You also need the big
gas guzzler engine for good acceleration. *Dicsocruiser* Ok in snow doesn't
mean GREAT. Only beetles and 4-wheel drive give that.
Rx7: *Discocruiser* good performace and handling. Lots of status.
Poeple disagree on the engine, but I think its OK.
280zx: Same as Rx7. Designed by a German engineer. No debate on the engine.
Tr7/8: British Layland is trying desperatly to commit sucide and
is suceeding. Parts are getting more expensive. You can get part and
you can get it fixed. The Tr7/8 has the nicer ride of the discocruiser
but doesn't seem to have much status. Only ragtop (convertible) in
production. The top is manual. If you get the Ragtop, learn how to
put it up and down before buying. It may not be worth the effort.
Heater and A/C are said to be good.
Sirrotco: A rabbit with the roof lower to the level of my ears.
the rear seat is bigger than the T/A seat but still useless.
Medium status.
RAbbit/Golf GTI: Tutonized rabbit, Handles nice, carries four (No sports Car
or Discocruiser can do this in comfort.) It should become a status
car. This car is in a special class with the BMW 2002.
BMW 320i: great status, high price, Good club in central jersey. Every one
else IS copying them. Discocruiser/Luxocruiser. Slower than BMW 2002.
Seats 4 in comfort.
BMW 2002: Great status. out of production so You must buy used. Handles very
well. Seats 4 in comfort. Special class with GTI.
Alfa GTV6: Discocruiser, great engine, good handling, Great status for those
in the know, weird seats (try it first). Little bits tend to break
intermittently. This car is a TOY, but you can use it daily, but not
as reliable as a JAPmobile.
---
Test drive all cars you are interested in. Buddy up to poeple who have them.
any body who owns one will be glad to tell you all about it.
Charles Colbert
I have had mine (TR7) for three years. There were a lot of initial glitches
which took a long time to get fixed. One still hasn't been (see my
steering problem complaint on net.auto), but may be the tires.
The TR7/8 are no longer being manufactured, so you can expect parts trouble
in the future, though there may be enough of them around to make it possible
to get parts from enthusiasts clubs, etc. Once the glitches were out,
the car has been pretty solid. There have been two serious acute problems:
the radiator sprang a leak and the cable from the accelerator pedal to
the carburators broke. It starts instantly even in very cold weather.
It performs well enough that I don't see why you'd want an 8. I considered
the RX7 but decided against it because it has no concealed storage space.
Everything I have heard about RX7s is good. If you are interested in
performance and also want to transport four people comfortably, I think
the standout favorite is likely to be the Turbo Volvo (!) My girlfriend
owns the non-turbo version with the normal street suspension and its
performance is remarkable for its size. I believe that with the
stiffer suspension they put on the Turbo, the wider tires, lower steering
ratio, lighter wheels, and turbocharging it would be one hell of a car.
I would probably buy one if I had it to do over again. It is the only car
I have ever seen with enough rear seat legroom for an adult to sit
comfortably with the front seat racked all the way back. (I'm not counting
Detroit aircraft carriers like Eldorados) You owe it to yourself to
test-drive one. Don't even consider the Scirocco.
I have a 1982 Rx-7 with almost 21K miles on it (i got it
last january and drive alot). I like the car alot.
It handles well and is very peppy. My dealer (Maple Shade Mazda)
is very good and makes the difference. Also, you will have
a hard time beating the price/performance that the Rx-7
gives.
Steven Nurenberg
I can't comment directly on any of the cars that you named (at least,
not out of first hand experience), but I can make a few general comments.
1. My brother-in-law has last years Celica and he really likes it. The new
ones look sharper and from what I hear, are just as nice.
2. I own a Mazda RX2 so I could fill a book for you on the rotary engine (the
1973 version of the engine). Basicly it has been a very good engine. I
have 59,000 miles and haven't had to rebuild it or do any other major
repairs. I have had to replace the water pump (big deal). The only
trouble I see for your use is cold weather. They start HARD in cold
weather. Mine has a button to push when the temp. gets below about
20 degrees F that puts some anti-freeze into the intake manifold. This
is supposed to make it easier to start (it doesn't). The basic problem
is that a rotary engine is a dynamic compression engine. The faster it
turns, the higher the compression. Even though it has a big battery, it
doesn't turn over very fast on a cold, cold morning. Even so, I would
buy another one, especially the RX7. It is strictly a two seater. I
don't use mine in the winter any more so that isn't a real consideration
for me. This is strictly a second car for me (my 'toy'). I may
replace it though next year when General Motors comes out with its
P car. This will be a two seater with a lot of good advanced info
about it.
Kit Kimes
You didn't mention the ONLY American made sports car!!! The
Chevrolet Corvette! I own two of them and enjoy both of them.
A little hard to get 4 people in one though!.. However, by
definition, a sports car seats only two people.
Phil Gunsul ...lime!we13!prg
I test drove the Rabbit GTI, and was VERY impressed. Its performance
was excellent, and road handling was superb for a car of its price range.
Only trouble is that the dealer claims that demand is so high that
a) you have to wait till probably Feb. to get one, and b) they
will not deal at all, ie, straight list price.
I encourage you to post a summary of your results to the net. Failing
that, please keep me informed via mail. Also if in your search you find
any information which contradicts what I found about GTI pricing and
delivery times, please let me know.
--peter gross
I just bought a 1982 Celica GT Liftback.
I really love it. It has a 5-speed manual
transmission. I got it with everything
except cruise, rear wiper, and sunroof.
It has a variable assist steering that really
hugs the turns quite well, and makes parking
quite easy. I've driven it about 1600 miles,
and so far am averaging 25 miles/gallon.
I've driven with four people, and they find
it quite comfortable.
One point - the radio it comes with, with
an electronic tuner, scanner, is better than
one I would have bought. The sound is really
something. A friend bought an 82 firebird,
and has had nothing but trouble. She wants
to trade it in for a Celica. They make
driving really fun.