ghoti+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Adam Stoller) (02/21/90)
Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 20-Feb-90 noecho bug on rlogin from
t.. Bill Janssen@parc.xerox. (298)
> it stops echoing my input. The same thing happens when I run gdb from a
typescript.
With GDB 3.x - if you really want to run it in typescript, and see what
you're typing - I think you have to turn off 'edit mode'.
I don't remember the exact command - as I've tended to use xterm's for
running gdb in.
--fishnsb@THUMPER.BELLCORE.COM (Nathaniel Borenstein) (02/22/90)
Actually, this is a VERY easy bug to reproduce. In addition to rlogin or gdb, you also get this behavior all the time if your shell is the Korn shell! Basically, I think it happens to anything that opens the terminal in raw mode. Very icky, indeed. I hadn't reported the bug because I was so used to it I took it for granted, but it is so bad that I have not recommended typescript to any one at Bellcore; my standard line is "if you're happy with xterm, stick with it." Of course, most people here use the Korn shell, so this is reasonable advice. I suspect this will be a VERY hard bug to fix, knowing a little about how typescript works, but it is certainly a major bug.
janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen) (02/22/90)
Excerpts from andrew: 21-Feb-90 Re: noecho bug on rlogin fr.. Adam Stoller@andrew.cmu. (420+0) > I don't remember the exact command - as I've tended to use xterm's for > running gdb in. Excerpts from andrew: 21-Feb-90 Re: noecho bug on rlogin fr.. Nathaniel Borenstein@thu (681) > ...I have not recommended typescript to any one at Bellcore; my standard > line is "if you're happy with xterm, stick with it." Of course, most > people here use the Korn shell, so this is reasonable advice. > I suspect this will be a VERY hard bug to fix, knowing a little about > how typescript works, but it is certainly a major bug. Oh ye of little faith! xterm -- bah, humbug. I want an ALL-ANDREW environment. Actually, tm works just fine with gdb and rlogin, and I've switched to using that instead. It also makes me believe that the fix to typescript cannot be all that hard. Bill
nsb@THUMPER.BELLCORE.COM (Nathaniel Borenstein) (02/22/90)
Tm does indeed work better than typescript for this sort of thing, but it has other bugs. I would switch to tm and report all the other bugs, except that tm is officially not supported by the ITC. (If I had my druthers, it would be the other way 'round -- tm is the one to support, albeit with several improvements!) I think that the basic typescript model for input-processing is sufficiently different from tm's that fixing typescript would be a lot harder than you think, but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. Wouldn't it be nice, by the way, if tm were modified so that the "standout" mode, which is reverse video on most terminals and currently an italic style in tm, were made something more noticable (e.g. even for SPACE characters in standout mode), like maybe an underline style? That's just one of about twenty tm suggestions that I'd make if it were a "supported" program... I have to say, though, that it isn't clear to me that there's a lot of mileage to be gotten out of improving typescript OR tm. I mean, does the world really need a better xterm-type program all that badly? Andrew really shines for applications like ez and messages. Typescript and tm have some neat features, but I'm not convinced they're worth a major support effort when resources at CMU are known to be quite limited. (Now, on the other hand, a real multimedia shell replacement program would be a very spiffy thing. To put the example in UNIX-command-line-terms, I'd like to be able to type (with apologies to everyone reading this on netnews or otherwise with non-Andrew readers): % grep [An Andrew ToolKit view (a raster image) was included here, but could not be displayed.] /u/nsb/.signature and get the output: [An Andrew ToolKit view (a raster image) was included here, but could not be displayed.] [An Andrew ToolKit view (a raster image) was included here, but could not be displayed.] Now, try doing that in typescript or tm! And yes, I recognize that the whole idea of sticking with UNIX command lines and the "grep" command is kind of absurd, but this should at least point you in the direction that a real Andrew-based shell would go! -- Nathaniel
dd26+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU ("Douglas F. DeJulio") (02/22/90)
I don't think the "noecho bug" in typescript is a bug. I think typescript is *supposed* to work that way. Using a typescript is basically the equivalent of telnetting in line mode instead of character mode. For some applications, this is the most useful way it could be implemented. -- Doug.deJ
bader+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Miles Bader) (02/23/90)
Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@thumper.bellcore.com> writes: > Wouldn't it be nice, by the way, if tm were modified so that the > "standout" mode, which is reverse video on most terminals and currently > an italic style in tm, were made something more noticable (e.g. even for > SPACE characters in standout mode), like maybe an underline style? Tm uses a template ("tm.<whatever-the-braindead-extension-for-templates-is>") to get its styles from, so just copy the default one into your own template directory and modify it to your pleasure. -Miles
janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen) (02/23/90)
Excerpts from andrew: 21-Feb-90 Re: noecho bug on rlogin fr.. Nathaniel Borenstein@thu (1908+3) > (If I had my druthers, it would be the other way 'round -- tm is the > one to support, albeit with several improvements!) I agree! I mean, does the world really need a better xterm-type program all that badly? The nice thing about typescript is that it supports the same interface model -- same text, same brain-dead menus, same line editing, etc. There are fewer breakdowns in switching between ez and typescript than between ez and xterm, for example. I'd like something more like tm, in that it should handle curses programs. And of course, the main attribute of xterm is that it emulates a character terminal. Typescript does not, and thus is not really an xterm-type program. And, as you say, it is ridiculous that typescript and tm do not properly present ATK objects. If I cat a file with a zip in it, I should see that object come out, not some text representation. We should have to run a program to see the text representation, something called ezrawcat or some such. But enough about how the world should be... Bill
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (02/24/90)
>I suspect this will be a VERY hard bug to fix, knowing a little about >how typescript works, but it is certainly a major bug. Bill, was your intended fix "replace 'typescript' with 'tm'"?
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (02/25/90)
>> Wouldn't it be nice, by the way, if tm were modified so that the >> "standout" mode, which is reverse video on most terminals and currently >> an italic style in tm, were made something more noticable (e.g. even for >> SPACE characters in standout mode), like maybe an underline style? > >Tm uses a template ("tm.<whatever-the-braindead-extension-for-templates-is>") >to get its styles from, so just copy the default one into your own template >directory and modify it to your pleasure. Unfortunately, there's no "inverse video" text style in Andrew yet, as far as I know....
janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen) (02/25/90)
Excerpts from andrew: 23-Feb-90 Re: noecho bug on rlogin fr.. Guy Harris@uunet.uu.net (191) > >I suspect this will be a VERY hard bug to fix, knowing a little about > >how typescript works, but it is certainly a major bug. > Bill, was your intended fix "replace 'typescript' with 'tm'"? It seems the best bet. Bill
nsb@THUMPER.BELLCORE.COM (Nathaniel Borenstein) (02/26/90)
Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 24-Feb-90 Re: noecho bug on rlogin fr.. Guy Harris@uunet.uu.net (592) > >> Wouldn't it be nice, by the way, if tm were modified so that the > >> "standout" mode, which is reverse video on most terminals and currently > >> an italic style in tm, were made something more noticable (e.g. even for > >> SPACE characters in standout mode), like maybe an underline style? > > > >Tm uses a template ("tm.<whatever-the-braindead-extension-for-templates-is>") > >to get its styles from, so just copy the default one into your own template > >directory and modify it to your pleasure. > Unfortunately, there's no "inverse video" text style in Andrew yet, as > far as I know.... Yes, but changing the word "Italic" to "Underline" in my copy of the appropriate template really did the trick -- it makes a MUCH better, if not perfect, mode line. Now that underlining works, shouldn't this really be the default? Yes, yes, tm is not supported, I know, but how hard is it to change Italic to Underline?