[comp.soft-sys.andrew] "old hidden messages" in AMS bboards

oester+@rchland.ibm.com (Bob Oesterlin) (10/27/90)

Recently, we seem to be a lot of "Old Hidden Messages" showing up in our
bboards - That is, the message will not appear for days or weeks, unless
a scavenge is done. The CUI bboard daemon  never shows any errors in the
log file, and I can't think of anything that's changed. I'd say it
happens 5-10 times/week. So, the questions are:

Why does a bboard post sometimes come up as "hidden"?

Is there anything I can do to track down the problem? (Oh, I suppose I
could run the bboard daemon with debugging on.... yuck!)

Bob

nsb@THUMPER.BELLCORE.COM (Nathaniel Borenstein) (10/29/90)

Are you sure they aren't ancient messages that are just now showing up?

In general, this is a symptom of a file system probelm -- there are very
few circumstances that cause this to happen other than the file system
hiccuping, at least, in mid-operation.   Such problems, however, should
show up on the bb daemon log, as you are aware.

A question:  how are you becoming aware of the hidden messages?  That
might help me to guess how/when it is happening.  -- Nathaniel

oester+@rchland.ibm.com (Bob Oesterlin) (10/29/90)

I'm sure that  they are *not* ancient  messages.. I'll give you an
example:

I post a message to bboard "advisor.foo". About 30 mins later, I check
for new messages. I'm subscribed to advisor.foo, so I expect to see my
last post. Messages shows me that the folder has new messages, and a
check from messages show the folder has new messages, but none are
displayed. The .MS.Master/Update file has been updated, and the message
is indeed in the folder. (I cd ~bboard/.MESSAGES/advisor/foo). I can
then make the message appear by a "scavenge" of the bboard.

Is this any help?

Bob

nsb@THUMPER.BELLCORE.COM (Nathaniel Borenstein) (10/30/90)

Excerpts from internet.info-andrew: 29-Oct-90 Re: "old hidden messages"
i.. Bob Oesterlin@rchland.ib (581)

> I post a message to bboard "advisor.foo". About 30 mins later, I check
> for new messages. I'm subscribed to advisor.foo, so I expect to see my
> last post. Messages shows me that the folder has new messages, and a
> check from messages show the folder has new messages, but none are
> displayed. The .MS.Master/Update file has been updated, and the message
> is indeed in the folder. (I cd ~bboard/.MESSAGES/advisor/foo). I can
then make the message appear by a "scavenge" of the bboard. 

This sounds very suspicious to me.  When the bboard is in the bad state
-- i.e. you can't see the new messages until you run a scavenge -- is
there a file in that directory called ".AMS_DIRMOD"?

If there is such a file, it means that things are working "right" in
some sense -- the operation of adding a message to the folder was
aborted, but the marker file was left around to tell the system to
auto-scavenge eventually.

If there is no such file, there's really a bug somewhere.  Can you
reproduce the circumstances in which this happens?  Has anything changed
recently to correspond to the advent of this bug (e.g. new hardware, new
OS, new Andrew patchlevel, etc.)?

In particular, you might look to see if there are any weird protections
set on the relevant .MS_MsgDir files, or anything like that, though I
can't imagine how that would happen.