wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu (Wade Blomgren) (04/04/91)
Here is a summary of the various responses I received to my query on the Mix database toolchest (and related Mix products) and the Vitamin C screen libraries (and related systems from other vendors) The two subjects are interleaved since several people responded to both questions. Wade Blomgren wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have been using Vitamin C since about 1988. It is a well thought through package which is updated about very 6 months. It has hooks that allows you to write extensions without changing the original libraries. The data input is pretty much the heart of the program. It is done with at link list of nodes on the screen. If you want to do lotus type input (move the cell in 2 dimensions) I would suggest that you look at another package. It is very difficult to do with VC. The screen painter is nice for prototyping or putting together a demo fast but not absolutely necessary. The have a BBS that you can call to get demos. The # is (214) 418 - 0059. As for the price differences, version 4.0 retails for 395. My guess is that the difference in version is the difference in price. Chuck Warlick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have used VC for a few years now, and it is generally disliked. At various times, people have tried to get rid of it. The last iteration was an attempt to convert it to the Curses library. This failed because people felt that since the software was running somewhat ok, we shouldn't fiddle with it and we're still living with a maintenance nightmare. The current plan is to convert this software to a motif application, but I'll beleive that when I see it. In short: We have, and hate it. Jon Nadelberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have purchased the Mix ToolChest DataBase software. I used it to develop a AKC Pedigree program (tree structures). It seems to operate just fine but I haven't really put it to any kind of stress test. Seems fast enough. Haven't used Vitamin C. Mix does have a "window" suite of library functions (like the DataBase stuff, this stuff is also priced inexpensively). This package works OK once you figure out what it is that the documentation tells you (in other words, the documentation sucks). It is very fast with screen manipulation and has handy functions for doing various type of menus, etc. Since they both include source code, I figure it's worth the price of admission. Chris Huey ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I used vitamin C fairly extensively about two years ago. I eventually gave it up because it didnot support 1. Graphics modes 2. Mouse 3. Child windows Other than this I was quite pleases with the product. I understand that all these issues except for (1) have been resolved in the current version. The source code is easy to follow if you need to make changes. Documentation was adequate. I am currently using CSCAPE for my user interface. Joe White ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mix: I bought it some time ago mainly out of curiosity. It does work, but I decided not to use it. The main reason was that it only handles ASCII data. No binary data, no user defined key types. I went for SoftFocus BTree package instead. A shareware package called CBASE (from Citadel) was posted a while ago to comp.sources.? (misc?) It also appears to be relatively good value - particularly since you can try it out before buying. It should be available either on uunet or wsmr-simtel20.army.mil. Vitamin C: Can't answer that, since I haven't tried Vitamin C. I have tried C-Scape though, and I was rather disappointed to discover that it wasn't possible to do CUA compatible user interfaces with it. A shareware package called TCXL (latest release is 5.52, I think) does almost as much as C-Scape and is much cheaper. Release 5.51 is on simtel20, but the 5.52 release should be much improved according to the programmer. Anders Thulin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mix: The toolchest has two libraries with it. One is a B+ tree library, the other is an ISAM library, implemented on top of the B+ tree lib. You can use functions from either lib. Get the source with it (only $10.00 more). I am using it in a program right now that has high data hits, and it is doing fine. It is very easy to use, and is the best library in my library (for the buck). It seems to be fairly robust (hasn't done anything bad yet), and if something does happen to blow up, you have the source. I reccommend it highly, even for very large applications. However, keep in mind that it does NOT support networking, or multiusers. They are working on it, though. For a standard MSDOS application, it will do almost anything you want. Vitamin C: I have not seen Vitamin C, but I have tried about a dozen text window/screen/ data entry/etc. libraries including TCU31, UltraWin, Window Boss, Magna Carta Software Windows Toolkit, C4Window, TCXL551, Tools4C, MCWint20, ProWinTC, TCWind16, WindowTC. By far, the best are TCU31 and UltraWin. They are both free, as they are. However, UltraWin only comes with small model libs. In order to get the other memory models, you need to register for $30.00. But, for the registration fee you get complete sources, phone, and BBS support. TCU is free, but you get no source. Both are very good, and put the others to shame without considering cost. When you factor cost into the equation, its like comparing apples and oranges. Overall, UltraWin has better windowing facilities, but TCU has better data entry facilities, mainly since you can create a command file which, when loaded, creates a data entry form automatically. UltraWin does not have a "form generator" for data entry. All the routines are there, but you have to explicitly call them. The guys who wrote it are working on a screen and data entry builder, where you build the i screens interactively (better than a text file) but it will not be available for another month or two. Also, the writer of TCU is developing TCU32 right now, and is putting some more improvements into it. Both of these can be ftp'd from SIMTEL20, or one of it's mirrors. I think the new version of TCU has been uploaded (its TCU31), but the version of UltraWin is VERY old. I suggest you pull them both down and evaluate them for your uses. You can call the guys from UltraWin, and they will give you their BBS number, where you can download the newest version. Both files are in the msdos.turbo-c directory. Jody Hagins ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes, I am a satisfied user of MIX C/Database Toolchest. Let me describe how it is organized. The lowest layer is C BTree (maybe B+, but I am not an expert in these things and the books are at home). You can call the BTree layer directly if you so desire. On top of BTree is the ISAM implementation, making calls to BTree to get much of the work done. You would normally use this layer (at least I do in my application). On the side they have provided several application tools. One is the Little Data Manager (LDM). LDM is a dBase like interface to let you create databases, enter, edit and delete data. By looking at the source, you can also see how to program an interface from your program to ISAM. There are also tools to dump databases and convert to and from dBase format. The records in the database are NULL terminated strings. This has the advantage of making a field any length you desire. It also has the disadvantage of making it impossible for a field to contain a NULL anywhere in it. This can be gotten around by storing numeric fields as strings and there are conversion to and from provided. Reading the contents of a record from the database yields an array of pointers to strings which are the fields. Since the windowing package I use does all data entry and editing on strings only, not numbers, then I have no conversions back and forth. The only time I have to convert is if I want to use the resulting number as a number in calculations, which my application infrequently. The documentation is EXCELLLENT. It provides you with a general introduction to everything you ever wanted to know about BTree and ISAM theory. The reference sections for BTree and ISAM give clear and correct information about each function and a small program (or fragment) showing use of that function. This is done for EVERY function. Error and success condtions are clearly documented. Although I have not done anything extensive enough to really stress the package, I have found it to work exactly as documented. Source code is available for a modest fee ($10, I believe) and is well worth the extra cost. Vitamin C I have no experience with Vitamin C. I bought the Magna Carta C Windows Toolkit from MIX. It is merely marketed by them, it is developed by Andrew Chalk of Magna Carta Software, only a few miles from MIX in Texas. It is a robust and widely functional text window toolkit, with a few minor bugs. It comes with source so tracking down and fixing bugs is fairly easy. Magna Carta is a good company to have to deal with. They have a BBS and questions are promptly answered on that, however, their voice phones are rather busy adn technical support is beter obtained on the BBS. On the BBS, you get the same person you would in person, and since he is technical support, chief programmer and president, he is easier to get in touch with on the BBS. He is eager to accept improvement suggestions and will incorporate them in future releases if deemed worthy. Users of CWT contribute enhancements to the toolkit which are available on the BBS. I have done this several times myself, as well as getting some very excellent packages which others have contributed. There are pop-up windows, exploding windows, graphics card detection, cursor, keyboard input, data entry, popup menus, and virtual screens available to mention just some of the features. Data entry functions, although they provide picture templates for allowable characters, deal only with strings. Yes you can make the user enter only a number, but you get it back as an ASCII string which represents the number, not as a number. It also comes with source, which I deem as an essention feature of any toolkit since it is possible any company might go out of business, or not be willing to add features you really need. With source, you can extend the toolkit all you desire and track down any bugs which are plaguing you. I have no other connection to these products other than being a VERY satisfied customer and commercial software developer using both packages. By the way, they both support Turbo C, Microsoft C, MIX Power C, and several other lesser known compilers. Dion Hollenbeck ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have been using Vitamin C for about 3 1/2 years. I use it with the Microsoft C 6.0a compiler. VC is a very powerful package. I do not know how it compares to other screen handling libraries as it is the only one I have used. The VC package comes with several examples (source and executables) that are very helpful. Telephone support is available for licensed users. VC Screen, on the other hand, is only a medium quality program (there might be a newer version than mine out). It is a little hard to learn at first. However, it is a decent tool to use during the learning stage of VC. VC Screen creates decent source code to study while learning VC. Good luck! David Swanger ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mix C (not the toolchest per se) I love the mix C compiler. I am not a professional programmer, but almost everything that I have compiled on SYSV compiles directly on mix C without any problems. It only takes up about 1 mb of space max compared to megabytes of MSC or TC. The code is relatively fast and relatively tight. If you don't need to link into pre-existing libraries from MSC or TC, you should have no troubles. rdkeys ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I've been using Vitamin C now for 3 years - and yes there are several different versions out. The product is EXCELLENT - the tech support is especially good! I recommend it highly. Dave Harvey ------------------------------------------------------------------------