ddw@cornell.UUCP (06/30/83)
From: ddw (David Wright)
To: net-auto
I believe that Laura Creighton is indeed wrong in thinking that seat belts
are better protection than air bags in a crash. I went back and checked
out the relevant Consumer Reports issue (Apr 77) for what info I could
find. Air bags have the advantage that they distribute the force of a
crash over a far larger area of your body than do seat belts, which can
cause some injury of their own in a crash, since the area in contact with
your tender carcass is relatively small. I really don't understand the
flaming about side collisions and shoulder belts, as I don't believe that
a shoulder belt could do much for you in a side collision (or a rollover)
although a lap belt might. Anyway, frontal collisions are the biggest
hazard and the ones air bags do the most for.
I checked the figures on air bag reliability (these were reported by the DOT
in 1977). 12,000 cars equipped with air bags drove over 400,000,000 miles.
In all this time, there were only 10 erroneous air bag ejections, and five
of these took place while the cars were being serviced, apparently due to
mechanics errors. Of the other five, none caused the driver to lose control
of the car. Of the vehicles in the study, about 100 were involved in serious
collisions, and in only one case (a passenger-side bag) did the bag fail to
inflate.
Costs: the true cost of installing air bags in cars is open to question.
In 1977, DOT was estimating that it should only be about $97/car once the
things went into mass production. GM estimated twice that much; Ford, about
three times. How come? Well, largely because the automakers amortized their
tooling and design costs over ONLY ONE YEAR, despite the fact that the
equipment would last longer than that. (Ford also included the cost of a
new, and unnecessary, steering column. Or was it Chrysler? Well, no matter.
One of 'em did it.)
I'm no fan of Big Brother, but only about 14% of US drivers were using their
seat belts six years ago, and I believe that the percentage has dropped
since then. Giving discounts to people who claim to always use seat belts
isn't really practical -- who's to say? How would you prove it? Most
importantly, why should I pay higher insurance rates because people are
stupid? At the very least I'd like to be able to order air bags as an
option on my car and get reduced insurance rates for doing so!
David Wright
{vax135|decvax|ihnss}!cornell!ddw
ddw.cornell@udel-relay
ddw@cornellheliotis@rochester.UUCP (06/30/83)
Yes, make it an option! I feel naked without my seatbelt, and therefore
feel that the $100-$300 I would have to pay for airbags is a waste of my
money.
I agree with Laura that, as long as the law only protects the welfare of
the person who might violate it, then it is probably a waste of time.
...Except in the case of those who cannot make mature decisions for them-
selves, e.g., children's car seat laws.
This leaves only the problem of insurance. Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't
it be possible to require all police to state in their accident reports
if the victims were wearing seat belts? It would seem to me that people
being injured because of not wearing them would rarely be in a state of
mind or body to buckle up before the cops came.
In a more picky vein, I fear that the airbags will greatly interfere with
my working on the wiring, etc. under the dashboard.
Will these things be required on 1984 US-built cars? I heard about some-
thing from the US Supreme Court recently.
Jim Heliotis
{seismo,allegra}!rochester!heliotis
heliotis@Rochesterseifert@ihuxl.UUCP (06/30/83)
*** fuel injection on *** *** superchargers on *** If I ever am forced into the position of buying a car with airbags, one the very first things I will do is to remove these explosive devices, and install a good set of seatbelts. Airbags are ONLY useful in a directly head-on collision, and ONLY if you are facing directly forward. Otherwise there is great potential for damage to your body from these disgusting things. Zinc asnide (or whatever the gas is) burns are not something I look forward to. Air bags only offer any protection for a fraction of a second. Seatbelts are ALWAYS there, throughout the ENTIRE accident, even if your car winds up on its roof. They also keep the driver behind the wheel where (s)he belongs for performing evasive action. (yes, I realize that the average American driver is probably incapable of successful evasive action, but they can always try, and might just get lucky, especially if they're from the snow-belt, and know which way to turn the wheel in a skid) If you think the standard seat belts are too skinny and may cause damage, fine. There are racing harnesses available which distribute the force among multiple 3" wide belts designed to hold you in place no matter what happens. I know people that have these in their street cars. I may someday have them in mine. If you want to have airbags in your car, that's your right. But you still need seatbelts. Also, please don't try and force me to purchase something which LOWERS the safety of my car, and say you're doing it in the name of safety. And don't ask me to be a passenger in your air bag equipped car. *** superchargers off *** *** fuel injection off *** *** nomex on *** (asbestos is carcinogenic) *** helmet on *** *** halon fire extinguisher ready *** Dave Seifert Windy City BMW Club ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert
dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) (07/01/83)
Do airbags require lap belts as well, or not? I was under the impression
that the whole point of airbags was that they were entirely passive and
so would protect people who refuse to wear seatbelts. If lap belts
are needed, why not provide a three-point belt and dispense with the
airbag? If there are no lap belts, the airbag isn't going to be much
good in a rollover or side impact.
I don't mind if airbags are available as an option, but I don't want to
pay for them. I always wear my 3-point lap/shoulder belt.
Dave Martindale, {allegra, decvax!watmath}!watcgl!dmmartindalejlw@ariel.UUCP (07/02/83)
I hope that when you rip out your airbags and replace them with a racing harness that the auto company left the re- inforcements in at the seatbelt anchor points. If not, you might as well be anchoring them in aluminum foil. Joseph L. Wood, III ABI Holmdel (201) 834-3759 ariel!jlw NJ Chapter, BMWCCA
zhahai@nbires.UUCP (07/05/83)
I fully agree about the airbags! I live in the mountains, and it's not the First Impact I worry about, which is all the airbags are good for. I want all the chance I can get to maneuver, and I certainly don't want to be blinded at the first tap. (nor startled by the BANG). Of course, I also dislike the "passive" seatbelts that are always in the way when you get in, but have no waist belt for real protection (only a shoulder harness and knee pads). I think the move to requiring seat belts in all cars was a good one, and the adjustable waist/shoulder combination is good (the ones which don't need an impact to test). Why coudn't they stop there? Oh, well. Zhahai Stewart (ucbvax, allegra)!nbires!zhahai