josh@cs.rutgers.edu (06/11/91)
I've gotten a couple of requests about what a "meme" is. I use the term in the sense that Richard Dawkins defined it when he introduced it in the book "The Selfish Gene". Dawkins conceived of "meme" as a unit of a replicating information pattern that corresponds to a "gene" in a self-reproducing organism. Unfortunately, he did not introduce a word for the whole replicator of which the meme is a building block, so there has been some tendency for "meme" to be used in this sense as well. I personally try to avoid this in the interests of precise thinking. The whole replicating idea systems, or "meme complexes", are such things as sciences, religions, games, legal and organizational codes, recipes, designs, superstitions, and so forth. Specific memes may or may not be included in any given complex; some books are murder mysteries, some mysteries are locked-room puzzles. One has the temptation to identify mysteries as a memetic species, with locked-roomedness as a trait. However, memetics is not well-formulated enough as yet to make such notions more than interesting metaphors. Designs, i.e. of buildings, machines, tools, clothing, and other artifacts, are probably the most distinctly expressed memetic phenotypes. Here we can see specific memes as the designs of particular parts or patterns. It is worthwhile noting that the idea of evolution in such designs was well understood before Darwin. The mechanisms by which it occurs, i.e. conscious choice on the part of designers, is easier to see than natural selection. The thing that is new with the concept of memes is the realization that natural selection also operates on the evolution of designs, and of other ideas, and indeed on all information patterns propagated from human to human. This leads to the realization that these, too, evolve. This of course leads to a lot more questions than answers; most of these questions remain open. There is a lot of very interesting work to be done. --JoSH
toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider) (06/12/91)
In article <Jun.10.21.24.35.1991.17960@planchet.rutgers.edu> josh@cs.rutgers.edu writes: >I've gotten a couple of requests about what a "meme" is. ... >This of course leads to a lot more questions than answers; most >of these questions remain open. There is a lot of very interesting >work to be done. > >--JoSH JoSH, could you tell us what some of your questions are? I don't have a clue as to which direction you are thinking. Tom Schneider National Cancer Institute Laboratory of Mathematical Biology Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201 toms@ncifcrf.gov [(a) we don't even have a classification system for memes. Would the Dewey Decimal system work? or would that be like classifying animals by color? Is there some relatively limited number of memetic "hook" mechanisms? (b) Are there regularities in the propagation of memes that can be expressed as laws like Mendelian genetics? Are there any results in related fields such as information theory, computer science, economics, psychology, and of course biology that provide more than metaphorical guidance? (c) It would be a monumental task simply to try to particular memes making up any significant body of knowledge (or, as I like to put it for things like astrology, body of ignorance), much less all of them. (d) and for crissakes, let's invent a word to mean "memetic organism" or "meme complex"! --JoSH]
toms@fcs260c2.ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider) (06/12/91)
In article <Jun.11.17.55.17.1991.27549@planchet.rutgers.edu> josh@cs.rutgers.edu writes: > (c) It would be a monumental task simply to try to particular > memes making up any significant body of knowledge (or, as I like > to put it for things like astrology, body of ignorance), much less > all of them. Seems to me this is the place to start. You seem to have an idea how to do this task. (I don't know what to do next.) Can you write down a list for starters? Then start to classify later. You can't figure out the classes without the list. So the SECOND step is your: >[(a) we don't even have a classification system for memes. Would > the Dewey Decimal system work? or would that be like classifying > animals by color? Is there some relatively limited number of > memetic "hook" mechanisms? After that you can look into: > (b) Are there regularities in the propagation of memes that can > be expressed as laws like Mendelian genetics? Are there any results > in related fields such as information theory, computer science, > economics, psychology, and of course biology that provide more > than metaphorical guidance? Making your list include information about propagation may eventually let you answer some of these questions. > (d) and for crissakes, let's invent a word to mean "memetic organism" > or "meme complex"! I wouldn't worry about making up words, use plain English until you really find a need for a new term. So let's see your list! > --JoSH] Tom Schneider National Cancer Institute Laboratory of Mathematical Biology Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201 toms@ncifcrf.gov
lance@motcsd.csd.mot.com (lance.norskog) (06/22/91)
> (d) and for crissakes, let's invent a word to mean "memetic organism" > or "meme complex"! > --JoSH] Structures of Memes: Memochromes. Chromomemes. Chromomemetics. Sizes of Memes: Nanomemes. Macromemes. Recombination and creation of Memes: Memosis. Lance Norskog