rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Randy Buckland) (12/05/84)
> *** New Issue*** > > I just read an article in USA TODAY that pertains very much to > the net. Now I realize that most of you are not hackers (well, > alright, some of you aren't :-) ). I quote (w/out permission, of > course :-) ) > > " Computer hackers across the USA have ganged > up on a NEWSWEEK reporter, who says his life has > become an electronic-era nightmare since he wrote > about them a month ago. > Correspondent Richard Sandza wrote about hackers > in the Nov. 12 issue, in which some hackers were > called a "new generation of vandals." > In the December 10 issue of NEWSWEEK, the story > is "hackers' revenge" -- on Sandza, who says: > He's received death threats and hundreds of > harassing phone calls. > He's been told his credit card numbers, home > address and social security number have been > stolen from the computerized files of TRW, the > nation's largest credit information operation > -- a federal crime -- and "posted" electronically > nationwide along with requests to "nail this guy." > He's still on "teletrial," where hackers debate > his "case" on an electronic bulletin board called > "Dragonfire" in Gainsville Tecas. > Sandza's first article showed how teen-age computer > whizzes -- who outwit bank, store and government > computer security systems (Who? Us? :-) --have created > their own subculture. > Experts say hackers continue to pierce confidential > data banks at will, and anyone in the files is a potential > victim. > "We've created a generation of criminals and given > them a new way to become vandals," said Sandza, Monday. " > > Right now, I have no Comment on this. Anyone want to say something??? > > --johnc at [...] ! dartvax ! holly Seems like poetic justice to me. Randy Buckland Research Triangle Institute ...!mcnc!rti-sel!rcb
hall@ittral.UUCP (Doug Hall) (12/06/84)
The thing that upsets me the most is the picture that the media has painted of hackers. What this guy (and most other reporters, be it newspaper, magazine, or television) has done is to mistake jerks and criminals for hackers. The public by and large is very misinformed. Nothing wrong with being a hacker. In fact, I'm kinda proud of it. Any bad conotations have come from the stupid media. I don't approve of breaking into systems, posting card numbers, and that kind of stuff, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for this guy. It's guys like him that give guys like me a bad name. I've always felt that being a hacker was kind of like going a step beyond just being a good programmer. A good programmer gets the job done. A hacker is always poking around, looking for a way to make the system do just a little bit more, run a little bit faster, make the code a little bit tighter. Schools teach programming (some of them anyway :-) ) but hacking is learned, well, by just hacking. At any rate, it may be too late to undo the damage the media has caused. If things keep up they'll make as big a mess of computers as they have politics. ~r .sig [The comments above are my own, not necessarily etc etc etc.]
jlg@lanl.ARPA (12/06/84)
> > " Computer hackers across the USA have ganged > up on a NEWSWEEK reporter, who says his life has > become an electronic-era nightmare since he wrote > about them a month ago. > Correspondent Richard Sandza wrote about hackers > in the Nov. 12 issue, in which some hackers were > called a "new generation of vandals." > In the December 10 issue of NEWSWEEK, the story > is "hackers' revenge" -- on Sandza, who says: > He's received death threats and hundreds of > harassing phone calls. > He's been told his credit card numbers, home > address and social security number have been > stolen from the computerized files of TRW, the > nation's largest credit information operation > -- a federal crime -- and "posted" electronically > nationwide along with requests to "nail this guy." > He's still on "teletrial," where hackers debate > his "case" on an electronic bulletin board called > "Dragonfire" in Gainsville Tecas. > Sandza's first article showed how teen-age computer > whizzes -- who outwit bank, store and government > computer security systems (Who? Us? :-) --have created > their own subculture. > Experts say hackers continue to pierce confidential > data banks at will, and anyone in the files is a potential > victim. > "We've created a generation of criminals and given > them a new way to become vandals," said Sandza, Monday. " > Too bad black lists are illegal. I think that anyone that has made unauthorized access to computing equipment should be barred from employment in any computer related field. The period of this employment sanction should be long enough to discourage even the youngest potential criminal. I began programming when I was 13 (in the late sixties) and even then the term 'hacker' was derogatory - as it still should be. J. L. Giles jlg@lanl
robert@gitpyr.UUCP (Robert Viduya) (12/07/84)
> > > > " Computer hackers across the USA have ganged > > up on a NEWSWEEK reporter, who says his life has > > become an electronic-era nightmare since he wrote > > about them a month ago. > > Correspondent Richard Sandza wrote about hackers > > in the Nov. 12 issue, in which some hackers were > > called a "new generation of vandals." > > > > Seems like poetic justice to me. Yes, it is rather appropriate. I wonder how Sandza got his info in the first place. Stories to the hackers of glorification in the annals of NEWSWEEK? On another note, among all those security breakers will probably come a few who will grow up and make computer security a lot more real than it is now. I don't believe the FBI should crack down so hard on these people. The problem ought to be solved from the other end, the computer end. Don't lock the people up after the damage is done, prevent the damage from being done in the first place. robert -- Robert Viduya Office of Computing Services Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta GA 30332 Phone: (404) 894-4669 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,masscomp,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!robert ...!{rlgvax,sb1,uf-cgrl,unmvax,ut-sally}!gatech!gitpyr!robert
rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (12/07/84)
[:-)] I wouldn't worry about it, Doug. The people that matter know the difference. Besides, when did the media ever get anything right? -- "It's the thought, if any, that counts." Dick Grantges hound!rfg
moriarty@fluke.UUCP (Jeff Meyer) (12/07/84)
My only comment is that I wish they wouldn't use the term "hackers" -- it
seems that "hacker" has a completely different meaning in computer circles
than in the "real world". But this is redundant...
Blessed Me,
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.
UUCP:
{cornell,decvax,ihnp4,sdcsvax,tektronix,utcsrgv}!uw-beaver \
{allegra,gatech!sb1,hplabs!lbl-csam,decwrl!sun,ssc-vax} -- !fluke!moriarty
ARPA:
fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPAcjk@ccice2.UUCP (Kreilick) (12/07/84)
> > " Computer hackers across the USA have ganged > up on a NEWSWEEK reporter, who says his life has > become an electronic-era nightmare since he wrote > about them a month ago. > Correspondent Richard Sandza wrote about hackers > in the Nov. 12 issue, in which some hackers were > called a "new generation of vandals." > In the December 10 issue of NEWSWEEK, the story > is "hackers' revenge" -- on Sandza, who says: > He's received death threats and hundreds of > harassing phone calls. > He's been told his credit card numbers, home > address and social security number have been > stolen from the computerized files of TRW, the > nation's largest credit information operation > -- a federal crime -- and "posted" electronically > nationwide along with requests to "nail this guy." > He's still on "teletrial," where hackers debate > his "case" on an electronic bulletin board called > "Dragonfire" in Gainsville Tecas. > Sandza's first article showed how teen-age computer > whizzes -- who outwit bank, store and government > computer security systems (Who? Us? :-) --have created > their own subculture. > Experts say hackers continue to pierce confidential > data banks at will, and anyone in the files is a potential > victim. > "We've created a generation of criminals and given > them a new way to become vandals," said Sandza, Monday. " > I think that anyone that has made unauthorized access to garbage cans should be barred from employment as a sanitation engineer. I think that anyone that has made unauthorized access to a microwave oven should be barred from employment in any food services field. I think that anyone that has been bitten by an unauthorized insect should be barred from leaving the woods. I think that anyone that has made unauthorized access to computing equipment should be termed a 'hacker', as he should be.
hartsook@sdcsvax.UUCP (Larry Hartsook) (12/08/84)
In article <2612@dartvax.UUCP> holly@dartvax.UUCP (Holly Cabell) writes: > >I just read an article in USA TODAY that pertains very much to >the net. Now I realize that most of you are not hackers (well, >alright, some of you aren't :-) ). I quote (w/out permission, of >course :-) ) > > " Computer hackers across the USA have ganged > up on a NEWSWEEK reporter, who says his life has > become an electronic-era nightmare since he wrote > about them a month ago. . . . > > >--johnc at [...] ! dartvax ! holly It seems that the response--perhaps I should say retaliation--Sandza has received is better proof of his argument than any information he could have had in his original story. For those of you who think that the media has given hackers a bad name, you're wrong. Jerks like the ones hassling Sandza have done it. They call themselves hackers, and their lack of any sort of moral intelligence reflects on everyone using that appellation. No one agrees on whether the term `hacker' is deragatory or not--a glance at the various replies to johnc's original article should make that obvious--and to crucify someone because he happens to use a different dictionary than what you think he should is the height of stupidity. I doubt that the reason Sandza has come under attack, however, is because he used the word `hacker'. Rather, I think it's because he had the temerity to confront these people with the criminality of their acts. The light of public scrutiny is certainly not what people involved in illegal activities want. And I defy anyone to show me that posting someone's credit card numbers on a national bulletin board with the request that that person be `nailed' is not criminal. -- Larry Hartsook UCSD EMU/Pascal Project ``It's not only user friendly, it's completely moron-tolerant!''
barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) (12/08/84)
[] > Too bad black lists are illegal. I think that anyone that has made > unauthorized access to computing equipment should be barred from > employment in any computer related field. The period of this employment > sanction should be long enough to discourage even the youngest potential > criminal. I began programming when I was 13 (in the late sixties) and > even then the term 'hacker' was derogatory - as it still should be. Not only are blacklists not used against these people, quite the opposite occurs. A talented 'system burglar' is quite likely to be offered big bucks to become a security expert *protecting* systems against further cracking (once he/she is let out of jail :-)). Have you never heard of "set a thief to catch a thief"? - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,hao,menlo70,hplabs}!ames!barry SOURCE: ST7891
jpm@bnl.UUCP (John McNamee) (12/08/84)
It has all been said before, but since it has been brought up again, here I go... Fascist laws to protect computer systems from breakins do not solve any problems. At best they give computer owners a false sense of security. If you are going to put your computer on a public network then you best secure it. That means using dialback units if you can, and at the least changing passwords often. TRW should be sued for gross criminal negligence for the way they handle their security. Printing a password on the credit report is just plain stupid. I know they cut that out a few months back, but have they changed every password since then? I doubt it. Do they change all password regularly? I doubt it. Do they use encryption? No. What do these people do to safegaurd their data? Nothing as far as I can tell. I dont see phreak BBS's as the big problem that many others do. They only distribute information, they dont generate it. I'm not saying they shouldnt be shut down (I'm all for it), but that doing so is attacking a symptom rather than the real problem. You wont make security problems go away by closing all the phreak boards. The insecure systems are still out there, and the next batch of kids will break into them and start new phreak boards. I think a solution is to give computer owners an incentive to patch their holes. I'm not a lawyer, but I know there is a principle of "mitigation of damage" that is often applied in civil suits. The idea is that if you want to claim you have been damaged, you have to show that you tried to reduce the damage done. This same principle should be applied when a computer has been broken into. If somebody was able to login to account "guest" with a password of "guest" then the system manager didnt do their job of making the system secure. "Attractive nuisance" laws could even be applied in cases such as this. As far as I'm concerned, if the system owner cared so little about security that obvious logins were available then he has very little right to complain when somebody breaks in. -- John McNamee ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jpm jpm@Bnl.Arpa
hart@cp1.UUCP (rod ) (12/08/84)
Right On! Back in the middle and late 60's all micro-hobby types were valid hackers. Most of the legitimate computer scientist of today got their start hacking up software and hardware that would drive the so-called hacker of the 80's up the wall. At one time the Bill Godbout and Steve Job of today were proud to be members in good standing of the fraternity of hacker. The guys who are called hackers today are by and large unsupervised youngsters with tremendous potential and adults who have not made the normal transition to adulthood. I am really amazed that legitmate organizations have not taken steps to stem this abuse via formal sponsorship of youth programs like the Boys and Girls Scouts. The combination of swift justice for the sick adult and guidance and supervision of the young would turn this situation around in no time. I am still proud of the hacking I did as a youngster back in the days of the heath analog kit and the 1 and 2k digital systems with model 33 tty's and tape cassette MASS storage. At every opportunity we should make sure the public understand that their is a definite distinction between hacking and screwing around. Ham radio experienced the same situation when CB radio damn near tarnished their image.-- =========================================================================== Signed by: Rod Hart (WA3MEZ) Minicomputer Technical Support District Chesapeake & Potomac Tel. Co. A Bell Atlantic Company Silver Spring, Md. sabre!cp1!hart - gamma!cp1!hart - umcp-cs!cp1!hart - aplvax!cp1!hart ===========================================================================
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (12/09/84)
> Too bad black lists are illegal. I think that anyone that has made > unauthorized access to computing equipment should be barred from > employment in any computer related field. The period of this employment > sanction should be long enough to discourage even the youngest potential > criminal. I began programming when I was 13 (in the late sixties) and > even then the term 'hacker' was derogatory - as it still should be. Well now that you are 14, maybe you can learn the true meaning of the word hacker. -Ron
jpm@bnl.UUCP (John McNamee) (12/09/84)
J. L. Giles <jlg@lanl> writes: > I began programming when I was 13 (in the late sixties) and > even then the term 'hacker' was derogatory - as it still should be. When I started programming 7 years ago hackers were the ones building their own computer systems. They were writing their own software and designing their own hardware. They shared their knowledge with anybody who was interested. They didnt break into computer systems. A "hacker" was somebody who knew his stuff and spent more time in front of a terminal than he did with his family. As far as I'm concerned, that you were educated in an environment that lacked hackers is your loss. I have called myself a hacker ever since I got really involved with computers. I am proud of being such. That you and the media want to attach some derogatory meaning to the word is your problem. -- John McNamee ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jpm jpm@Bnl.Arpa
jsq@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman) (12/10/84)
> > My only comment is that I wish they wouldn't use the term "hackers" -- it > seems that "hacker" has a completely different meaning in computer circles > than in the "real world". But this is redundant... > > Blessed Me, > > Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer > John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc. The following definitions go back at least to the early 70's. Note the NEWSWEEK definition corresponds only to definition 6 of hacker. From the jargon file maintained at Stanford and MIT via the ARPANET: HACK n. 1. Originally a quick job that produces what is needed, but not well. 2. The result of that job. 3. NEAT HACK: A clever technique. Also, a brilliant practical joke, where neatness is correlated with cleverness, harmlessness, and surprise value. Example: the Caltech Rose Bowl card display switch circa 1961. 4. REAL HACK: A crock (occasionally affectionate). v. 5. With "together", to throw something together so it will work. 6. To bear emotionally or physically. "I can't hack this heat!" 7. To work on something (typically a program). In specific sense: "What are you doing?" "I'm hacking TECO." In general sense: "What do you do around here?" "I hack TECO." (The former is time-immediate, the latter time-extended.) More generally, "I hack x" is roughly equivalent to "x is my bag". "I hack solid-state physics." 8. To pull a prank on. See definition 3 and HACKER (def #6). 9. v.i. To waste time (as opposed to TOOL). "Watcha up to?" "Oh, just hacking." 10. HACK UP (ON): To hack, but generally implies that the result is meanings 1-2. 11. HACK VALUE: Term used as the reason or motivation for expending effort toward a seemingly useless goal, the point being that the accomplished goal is a hack. For example, MacLISP has code to read and print roman numerals, which was installed purely for hack value. HAPPY HACKING: A farewell. HOW'S HACKING?: A friendly greeting among hackers. HACK HACK: A somewhat pointless but friendly comment, often used as a temporary farewell. [The word HACK doesn't really have 69 different meanings. In fact, HACK has only one meaning, an extremely subtle and profound one which defies articulation. Which connotation a given HACK-token has depends in similarly profound ways on the context. Similar comments apply to a couple other hacker jargon items, most notably RANDOM. - Agre] HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically, or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value (q.v.). 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. Not everything a hacker produces is a hack. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; example: "A SAIL hacker". (Definitions 1 to 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. A malicious or inquisitive meddler who tries to discover information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". -- John Quarterman, CS Dept., University of Texas, Austin, Texas 78712 USA jsq@ut-sally.ARPA, jsq@ut-sally.UUCP, {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!jsq
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (12/10/84)
If you really want to correct the bad image of the term "hacker" that started when Dan Rather did his series and has continued since, why not write a polite letter to Sandza (possibly with a CC to Rather) explaining the difference? Such people are in the best position to straighten out the public image. It might even make a good story for them. (And I'll bet Sandza would appreciate getting some NICE mail from hackers for a change!) I've always thought the term "hacker" stood for someone who was obsessed with the use of computers, to the exclusion of nearly everything else. Some hackers break into systems. Others do useful work and put it into the public domain (or just use it themselves.) A few do both. So calling those intruders "hackers" was correct, it just gave the wrong impression. For those of you searching for a new word for the bad guys, I think the last time this came up, the discussion finally settled on "cracker." If someone has a (paper) address for Sandza, would you please post it? I don't suppose we can reach him electronically. Mark Horton
mauney@ncsu.UUCP (Jon Mauney) (12/10/84)
According to the AP story carried by our local paper, the Newsweek reporter got his information by actually taking part in discussion on a bulletin-board system on which were traded credit card numbers, system-cracking tips, recipes for nitroglycerin, and other wholesome hobbies. What was reported on was not a group of hackers but a den of thieves. The modus operandi is changed by new technology, but that is all that is different. It is hardly surprising that the reaction would include threats of violence. We are not talking about nerds here. -- _Doctor_ Jon Mauney, mcnc!ncsu!mauney \__Mu__/ North Carolina State University
lat@stcvax.UUCP (Larry Tepper) (12/11/84)
Several recent postings regarding revenge by hackers against Newsweek correspondent Richard Sandza have suggested that he got what he deserved for calling hackers no more than vandals. To read these suggests that you believe nothing more than name calling was done to him. Rather, one hacker broke into an account at a local bank, used that to access TRW's system that tracks credit cards accounts, and then posted his card numbers on several bulletin boards and invited other hackers to get him. You folks would be up in arms too if hackers did this to you. Be honest enough to admit it, for heavens sake! Poetic justice??? Horse S**t!!! > From: robert@gitpyr.UUCP (Robert Viduya) > On another note, among all those security breakers will probably come a > few who will grow up and make computer security a lot more real than it > is now. I don't believe the FBI should crack down so hard on these people. > The problem ought to be solved from the other end, the computer end. > Don't lock the people up after the damage is done, prevent the damage from > being done in the first place. Do you believe these hackers aren't aware of what they're doing? Do you believe they're all innocent kids having fun? I saw a recent item on the TV news where a hacker broke into the system at a local small business and completely wiped out all of their disks. Be lenient on them, eh? These aren't vandals??? May they visit your system during the evening. It's pretty much taken for granted that professional thieves can break into cars or homes in a matter of minutes, burglar system or not. Apply your logic to this similar situation (and it is similar). How expensive of an alarm system should I have to spend to protect my home and property from common thieves? Shouldn't we be lenient on them so that they can later advise the law enforcement and burglar alarm people on how to prevent them from breaking in? -- One of the survivors... {ihnp4 hao philabs sdcrdcf ucbvax!nbires}!stcvax!lat Larry Tepper Storage Technology, MD-3T, Louisville, CO 80028 303-673-5435
rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Randy Buckland) (12/11/84)
> > When I started programming 7 years ago hackers were the ones > building their own computer systems. ... A "hacker" was somebody > who knew his stuff and spent more time in front of a terminal > than he did with his family. > The day I stop considering myself a hacker is the day that I stop writing programs and start selling insurance door-to-door. I also am proud to be called a hacker. When people call me a hacker with a derogatory tone, I politely thank them for the complement and leave them wondering what happened. I hope the incentives to become a hacker (i.e. a person who write/improves program for the fun of it) never die. LONG LIVE THE HACKER!!! Thank you and goodnight. Randy Buckland Research Triangle Institute ...!mcnc!rti-sel!rcb
root@vortex.UUCP (The Superuser) (12/12/84)
My column in Unix/World covered the whole issue at length a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, I don't have an online copy, but presumably you can find a copy of U/W around somewhere. The column title (my regular "sync" column) was: "Hackers, Crackers, Language, and Law" --Lauren--
mauney@ncsu.UUCP (Jon Mauney) (12/12/84)
Judging from the account in our local paper, Sandza went "undercover" and got the material for his story by actually participating in a bulletin-board system. This system was/is used to swap system-cracking tips, passwords, credit card numbers, recipes for nitroglycerin, and other wholesome hobbies. He was dealing not with a herd of hackers but a den of thieves. It is hardly surprising that their reaction took the form it did. Whether hacking is good or bad, and whether teen-age crackers are innocent joyriders or not, these particular crackers are clearly outside the main stream, and should not be considered typical computer enthusiasts. -- Jon Mauney, mcnc!ncsu!mauney Computer Hacking Department North Carolina State University "Oh, I'm a systems hack and I'm OK, I work all night and I sleep all day;"
jpm@bnl.UUCP (John McNamee) (12/12/84)
> For those of you who think > that the media has given hackers a bad name, you're wrong. Jerks > like the ones hassling Sandza have done it. The media has repeated their lies. They call themselves "hackers", yet they are not. Do reporters always do so little research into what they are writing about? > They call themselves > hackers, and their lack of any sort of moral intelligence reflects > on everyone using that appellation. Lets say I am a plagiarist and started calling myself a "writer". How many reporters who repeat that title? > I doubt > that the reason Sandza has come under attack, however, is because > he used the word `hacker'. Of course not. Who ever said that? It is the net people who are down on hackers that are getting attacked (they attacked us first by comparing us to crmininals). -- John McNamee ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jpm jpm@Bnl.Arpa -- John McNamee ..!decvax!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jpm jpm@Bnl.Arpa
robert@gitpyr.UUCP (Robert Viduya) (12/13/84)
>< > It's pretty much taken for granted that professional thieves can break > into cars or homes in a matter of minutes, burglar system or not. > Apply your logic to this similar situation (and it is similar). How > expensive of an alarm system should I have to spend to protect my home > and property from common thieves? Shouldn't we be lenient on them > so that they can later advise the law enforcement and burglar alarm > people on how to prevent them from breaking in? > But the difference here is that there is less being done to prevent break-in's into computers than there is being done to prevent break- in's into people homes. Almost everyday, I see some ad or some art- icle or some news story somewhere about security systems for banks, stores, homes and etc. People are more intent on protecting physical property than they are of protecting electronic property. The reasons for this is the fact that physical property is more tangible and also the fact that the average Joe-on-the-street doesn't know bull-whoopie about how to protect his computer system. The general public needs to be educated to the problem of security on computers. I work at the computer center here at Georgia Tech and almost every day I see little security problems like someone logging on to a terminal that's set to half-duplex so the password gets echoed to the world, or people who've never changed their password since they got their account, or little things like that. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with either them or the people who are responsible for educating them in computer security. I'd like to say that they deserve whatever they get, but I really don't want to go that far. At least I know that our systems are secure enough to handle most minor security breaches. Don't get me wrong, I'm just as strongly for more secure systems as you are, but I just believe more attention should be spent preventing the damage than trying to pick up the pieces afterwards. Whether we like it or not, there will always be people who will try to break into computer systems, regardless of how stringent the penalties are. robert -- Robert Viduya Office of Computing Services Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta GA 30332 Phone: (404) 894-4669 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,masscomp,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!robert ...!{rlgvax,sb1,uf-cgrl,unmvax,ut-sally}!gatech!gitpyr!robert
kaiser@jaws.DEC (Pete Kaiser 225-5441 HLO2-1/N10) (12/13/84)
The story of "The Hackers and the Reporter's Credit Card Number" shows symptoms
of passing into folklore.
I wonder if it's true: not whether he was told it happened, but whether it
actually DID happen; whether he or anyone ever saw any plain factual evidence
that people stole his private information. If not, it's just folklore.
For an understanding of modern folklore, read a fascinating book entitled
"The Vanishing Hitchhiker".
---Pete
Kaiser%{JAWS,BELKER}.DEC@decwrl.arpa {JAWS,BELKER}::KAISER
{allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-{jaws,belker}!kaiser
DEC, 77 Reed Road (HLO2-1/N10), Hudson MA 01749 617/568-5441berry@zinfandel.UUCP (Berry Kercheval) (12/13/84)
In article <60@tekadg.UUCP> eric@tekadg.UUCP (E Burrito) writes: >ANYBODY who uses a credit card or does anything to promote the advent of the >all electronic economy DESERVES to take in the butt and any person so >buttgiving it to them, rather than being a vandal, is a hero of the little >guy and freedom, and deserves to be treated as such. > >Much like those wonderful folks on their on/off roads who manage to take out >those 40-man-hour eyesore of fortified mailboxes with only a stick or two of >dynamite. > >Yes. Uh, excuse me. Does this make sense, or am I being very dense this morning? -- Berry Kercheval Zehntel Inc. (ihnp4!zehntel!zinfandel!berry) (415)932-6900
gino@voder.UUCP (Gino Bloch) (12/14/84)
> ANYBODY who uses a credit card or does anything to promote the advent of the > all electronic economy DESERVES to take in the butt and any person so > buttgiving it to them, rather than being a vandal, is a hero of the little guy > and freedom, and deserves to be treated as such. I guess this guy ALMOST has a conscience - he is evidently trying to find a rationalization for vandalism. Sorry, vandalism is vandalism. -- Gene E. Bloch (...!nsc!voder!gino) Try to understand.
tim@cithep.UucP (Tim Smith ) (12/15/84)
>> On another note, among all those security breakers will probably come a >> few who will grow up and make computer security a lot more real than it >> is now. I don't believe the FBI should crack down so hard on these people. >> The problem ought to be solved from the other end, the computer end. >> Don't lock the people up after the damage is done, prevent the damage from >> being done in the first place. > >It's pretty much taken for granted that professional thieves can break >into cars or homes in a matter of minutes, burglar system or not. >Apply your logic to this similar situation (and it is similar). How >expensive of an alarm system should I have to spend to protect my home >and property from common thieves? Shouldn't we be lenient on them >so that they can later advise the law enforcement and burglar alarm >people on how to prevent them from breaking in? Yes, a professional thief can probably get around any burglar alarm that I can afford. But very few thieves can get around the alarms that a bank can afford. And even fewer can get into, say, Fort Knox. So I will keep my valubles in a bank. Now look at what a computer thief faces. Consider TRW's credit card system. From what has appeared in the news, it seems that no great skill is involved in breaking this system. Look guys, If I put all my money in an envelope, and stick it on my front door, with a sign that says "MONEY -- TAKE ME!!!!" on it, it's going to get stolen! Any big company ( And TRW is big, aren't they? ), should be able to afford some reasonable computer security. It should at least require the skills of an expert computer theif to break into a big companies system, dammit! Here at cithep, we have a machine running VMS. It talks to some sort of network with about 100 VMS machine on it. We spent an afternoon once connecting to these machines and typeing "SYSTEM" at the "Username:" prompt, and "MANAGER" at the "Password:" prompt. Guess how many systems we got into? ~20. ( this is from memory, so don't quote me... ) By the way, have any of you people out there on the net tried, or do you know anybody who has tried, to get into the TRW system. Did you make it? Was it as easy as the newspapers imply that it is? Maybe if somebody mailed to all the members of Congress their credit card numbers, we would see some pressure on TRW to get some better security! :-) -- Tim Smith ihnp4!cithep!tim or ihnp4!wlbr!callan!tim
gnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) (12/17/84)
My gosh! They were sending messages telling how to make Nitro! Oh no! - Anyone who takes directions for making Nitro off a BBS deserves what they get. After all, the people on the BBS have a hard time proving that they have ever tried it. You fill the bathtub full of ice -- I'll go watch TV behind some sandbags...
eric@tekadg.UUCP (E Burrito) (12/19/84)
ANYBODY who uses a credit card or does anything to promote the advent of the all electronic economy DESERVES to take in the butt and any person so buttgiving it to them, rather than being a vandal, is a hero of the little guy and freedom, and deserves to be treated as such. Much like those wonderful folks on their on/off roads who manage to take out those 40-man-hour eyesore of fortified mailboxes with only a stick or two of dynamite. Yes.
holmes@dalcs.UUCP (Ray Holmes) (12/20/84)
> > > > When I started programming 7 years ago hackers were the ones > > building their own computer systems. ... A "hacker" was somebody > > who knew his stuff and spent more time in front of a terminal > > than he did with his family. > > > > The day I stop considering myself a hacker is the day > that I stop writing programs and start selling insurance door-to-door. > I also am proud to be called a hacker. When people call me a hacker > with a derogatory tone, I politely thank them for the complement and > leave them wondering what happened. I hope the incentives to become > a hacker (i.e. a person who write/improves program for the fun of it) > never die. LONG LIVE THE HACKER!!! Thank you and goodnight. > > Randy Buckland > Research Triangle Institute > ...!mcnc!rti-sel!rcb As I've said before, I am a HACKER and proud of it. To be called a hacker is one of the best compliments I can think of. The media use of the term is more than derogitory. Ray