[comp.protocols.kerberos] Time Synchronization for IBM VM and MVS System

GALINA@IBM.COM ("Galina Kofman") (02/08/91)

***** Reply to your note of: Thu, 7 Feb 91 12:12:04 EST ******************
We at IBM recognize the necessity of time synchronization.
We looking into possibility of implementing ntp or dtp.

Galina Kofman.

OPSRJH@UCCVMA.UCOP.EDU (Richard Hintz) (02/09/91)

On Thu, 7 Feb 91 14:54:31 EST you said:
>***** Reply to your note of: Thu, 7 Feb 91 12:12:04 EST ******************
>We at IBM recognize the necessity of time synchronization.
>We looking into possibility of implementing ntp or dtp.


I guess I understand from this reply is that it is technically
not possible to use VM as a Kerberos authentication server for
application clients and servers not residing on the same
machine.

It would seem that there would be formidable obstacles to
implementing ntp or dtp on 3090 class mainframes (as anyone who
has every initialized a 3090 system and set the TOD clock would
probably corroborate).

I hope that the solution doesn't require the IBM Sysplex Timer.
At a list price of $32,000, it's expensive and doesn't even
exploit the current network time sync technology (since it dials
NIST instead of referring to the Stratum-1/2 etc. time
referents).

  Richard Hintz  opsrjh@uccvma.ucop.edu  opsrjh@uccvma
  University of California

louie@SAYSHELL.UMD.EDU ("Louis A. Mamakos") (02/09/91)

Rather than synchronizing the clock on the IBM system, you can just
provide the "correct" time to the Kerberos related entities on the
system.  Provide a service on the system that can supply "correct"
time, and don't worry about correcting the system's clock.

One possibility is to have a shared segment with the current offset
between the system time and the correct time maintained by an NTP
process.  The offset is not likely to change very rapidly, and this
might be a "cheap" way to supply correct time to cooperating
applications.

louie

smb@ulysses.att.com (02/09/91)

	 On Thu, 7 Feb 91 14:54:31 EST you said:
	 >***** Reply to your note of: Thu, 7 Feb 91 12:12:04 EST *************
	*****
	 >We at IBM recognize the necessity of time synchronization.
	 >We looking into possibility of implementing ntp or dtp.

	 I guess I understand from this reply is that it is technically
	 not possible to use VM as a Kerberos authentication server for
	 application clients and servers not residing on the same
	 machine.

I fear I'm sadly misunderstanding the problem.  Kerberos does not require
closely-synchronized clocks.  As I recall the README files and installation
manuals, the default clock skew is 5 minutes.  Unless the drift is very
bad -- not my (comparatively ancient) experience with IBM mainframes --
this shouldn't be a problem.  (Assuming, of course, that whoever set the
time didn't get the year wrong or some such...)

Granted, NTP can't be used unless someone implements a robotic arm to flip the
clock enable switch.  But surely someone can set the time to within a
few seconds of UTC without particular trauma.  And, while that's not
nearly good enough for distributed file systems, it's more than ample
for current Kerberos implementations.

mischu@allegra.att.com (Michael Merritt) (02/09/91)

Please be careful about setting the time by any other
than a secure mechanism.  Doing otherwise exposes you
to replay attacks.
Michael Merritt